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Mistaken beliefs about how much to talk in conversations

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Re: Mistaken beliefs about how much to talk in conversations

#41

Post by scatterhead »

ajkjk wrote: post #30
starkd wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another pearl of his is to be "profuse in your praise". Even if it risks sounding empty or pure flattery, because it always leaves a good impression and works.

Profuse praise is so weird and off-putting to be a recipient of. I don't know what you're talking about. Maybe this was true however many years ago but it doesn't feel true all the time today.

It needs to be subtle. So maybe "profuse" is the wrong word.

For example, throwing in phrases like "with your experience, you would know that..." or "that thing you said was hilarious" make people feel good, hopefully while also being true. This is a huge part of likeability.

Re: Mistaken beliefs about how much to talk in conversations

#42

Post by cateblanchett »

scatterhead wrote: post #37
cateblanchett wrote: post #4

i think there's an unconscious impulse to try to seem either servile or mysterious in conversations where you want to be liked or seem interesting. so it makes sense that people assume reticence to speak is a better tactic than talking a lot.

Servile or mysterious? That doesn't resonate with me at all. Could that be a function of your personality and not a widely applicable thing?

well to want to be 'liked' is to put yourself at the mercy of someone else's opinion of you. and to seem 'interesting' without saying much is to elicit intrigue - or mystery, so you want to seem mysterious.

Re: Mistaken beliefs about how much to talk in conversations

#43

Post by ycombobreaker »

worble wrote: post #31
asaph wrote: post #5

One of the often repeated pearls of wisdom from How to Win Friends and Influence People[0] by Dale Carnegie, is people like to talk about themselves and they’ll like you more if you let them do that in a conversation. I’m paraphrasing. This research seems to counter that. [0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/How_to_Win_Friends_and_Influ...

My own personal and very much anecdotal experience of this is that's a very American view of conversations; they like to talk about themselves, what they're doing, what they've just bought, their aspirations, etc, while Europeans (and especially Brits) would find such questioning to be bad form and even privacy invasive. Obviously exceptions exist on both sides, but speaking generally.

What would you suggest as a cultural guideline for an American conversing with a European or Brit?

Re: Mistaken beliefs about how much to talk in conversations

#44

Post by californical »

ajkjk wrote: post #30
starkd wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another pearl of his is to be "profuse in your praise". Even if it risks sounding empty or pure flattery, because it always leaves a good impression and works.

Profuse praise is so weird and off-putting to be a recipient of. I don't know what you're talking about. Maybe this was true however many years ago but it doesn't feel true all the time today.

I’ve apparently been doing this for a long time without noticing. I just like telling people that appreciate them or reminding them that they’re doing well, etc!

Had no idea it had a name or “strategy” associated with it… I just like other people to know when they’re having a positive impact on me (or something else). And people always seem to like knowing that, and get into a better mood in response!

Edit: maybe I’m not understanding the concept very well, and “profuse praise” the strategy is more belligerent than I thought

Re: Mistaken beliefs about how much to talk in conversations

#45

Post by sdwr »

ajkjk wrote: post #30
starkd wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another pearl of his is to be "profuse in your praise". Even if it risks sounding empty or pure flattery, because it always leaves a good impression and works.

Profuse praise is so weird and off-putting to be a recipient of. I don't know what you're talking about. Maybe this was true however many years ago but it doesn't feel true all the time today.

Yeah genuine praise is just ok, habitual or forced praise is the worst.

Re: Mistaken beliefs about how much to talk in conversations

#46

Post by scruple »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #33
asaph wrote: post #5

One of the often repeated pearls of wisdom from How to Win Friends and Influence People[0] by Dale Carnegie, is people like to talk about themselves and they’ll like you more if you let them do that in a conversation. I’m paraphrasing. This research seems to counter that. [0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/How_to_Win_Friends_and_Influ...

> from How to Win Friends and Influence People[0] by Dale Carnegie Implementing the advice in this book too literally makes for very inauthentic sounding conversation. After reading this book, I found it easy to spot other people who had read it and were trying the techniques on me. For example, when someone uses my name 10 different times in a private conversation for no obvious reason, I have a good idea that they’…

I've also experienced this and I've mentioned it in comments here in the past. I once recommended the book to a (former) colleague and it was maddening to talk to this person after they finished it. FWIW, I'm also always on edge when I talk to someone who I know has read the Rosenberg non-violent communication book(s), so it's not just the books or it's contents but a certain personality type, I guess.

Re: Mistaken beliefs about how much to talk in conversations

#47

Post by scatterhead »

cateblanchett wrote: post #42
scatterhead wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Servile or mysterious? That doesn't resonate with me at all. Could that be a function of your personality and not a widely applicable thing?

well to want to be 'liked' is to put yourself at the mercy of someone else's opinion of you. and to seem 'interesting' without saying much is to elicit intrigue - or mystery, so you want to seem mysterious.

I think it's more correct that people appreciate being liked. If you don't feel liked by this person, you'll gravitate to a different person. Calling it "servility" is really stretching it.

> seem 'interesting' without saying much is to elicit intrigue - or mystery, so you want to seem mysterious.

I'm sure there are people to whom that applies. But it doesn't seem likely to be widely applicable to me. Most people just aren't going for the "dark and mysterious" vibe.

Re: Mistaken beliefs about how much to talk in conversations

#48

Post by dghlsakjg »

ajkjk wrote: post #30
starkd wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another pearl of his is to be "profuse in your praise". Even if it risks sounding empty or pure flattery, because it always leaves a good impression and works.

Profuse praise is so weird and off-putting to be a recipient of. I don't know what you're talking about. Maybe this was true however many years ago but it doesn't feel true all the time today.

The man who gave that advice also paired it with being authentic: "Give honest and sincere appreciation."

That advice was actually given in the context of a supervisor or superior working to improve a report: 'Praise the slightest improvement and praise every improvement. Be “hearty in your approbation and lavish in your praise.”'

So in context, its about noticing the things you as a person like about people and vocalizing them, and separately drawing attention to when someone improves. Pretty sound advice

If you read the actual book, its as much about not being a bore, and how not to piss people off. Some people take the advice in it WAY too far, and that's when it comes across as off-putting and inauthentic.

Re: Mistaken beliefs about how much to talk in conversations

#49

Post by willmadden »

asaph wrote: post #5

One of the often repeated pearls of wisdom from How to Win Friends and Influence People[0] by Dale Carnegie, is people like to talk about themselves and they’ll like you more if you let them do that in a conversation. I’m paraphrasing. This research seems to counter that. [0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/How_to_Win_Friends_and_Influ...

Dale Carnegie already had a well established reputation when he allowed the others to speak about themselves. Apples and oranges if you are not already famous.

Re: Mistaken beliefs about how much to talk in conversations

#50

Post by rootusrootus »

As with everything else, it seems, my anecdotal experience suggests a balance is usually the best overall answer. People with diarrhea of the mouth aren't much fun to talk to, but either are people who won't say more than three words at a time.

Same with what you talk about. People like to talk about themselves, but many of them are interested in hearing about you too. Just keep it under control, and lob that conversation topic ball back and forth regularly.

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