Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

DNS over Wikipedia

github.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

131–140 of 168 posts

Re: DNS over Wikipedia

#131

Post by dale_glass »

Cyberdog wrote: post #111
dale_glass wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Intent? Find me a post on KF stating intent to harm someone in real life which wasn't either downvoted or promptly deleted. Go ahead. Are you new to online communities? I've been a core member of several for years. There's always politics, admin only channels, and people contacting each other outside the main system. Sometimes multiple levels, like two admins talking in private, then adding a third, then bringing i…

> There's always politics, admin only channels, and people contacting each other outside the main system. Okay, so KF is responsible for conversations that happen outside of KF now? What should KF's admins do about that? > Sure, and if you know the right people on the right Discord, then you can avoid all that and discuss all the plans and share all the juicy news away from prying eyes. Take that up with Discord, the…

> Okay, so KF is responsible for conversations that happen outside of KF now?

No, I mean that any organization is more than what it presents publicly. The people that own KF, and the people that post on it are going to have more ways to talk to each other than to post on public threads.

> Take that up with Discord, then.

No, I take it up with the people who use Discord to this end first of all. And with Discord second, of course, if they know that's going on there and allow it.

Re: DNS over Wikipedia

#133

Post by pessimizer »

brookst wrote: post #46
kikokikokiko wrote: post #39

We live in a distopia where one of the last search engines that returns real results related to anything the western mainstream "hidden forces" do not want you to be able to see is Yandex, a company located under a dictatorship. In 2022, the only way for a regular citizen to approximate what is reality, what is the "truth", is to look for information provided from the opposite side of any argument you're trying to un…

We live in an imperfect society where extremists leverage the very real flaws to insist that everything is absolutely corrupt and that we should embrace the exact opposite of anything that’s imperfect. Vaccines don’t prevent 100% of all infections for everyone? They’re obviously complete frauds that do no good at all. The sad thing is that we have real problems, and this nihilistic insistence that everything is fake…

This argument is 100% of the time used to silence people by telling them that they should be talking about anything other than the subject they are currently talking about. It's also a generic argument that can be used to dismiss any issue without changing the wording.

Re: DNS over Wikipedia

#137

Post by haroldp »

howenterprisey wrote: post #120
haroldp wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that is a fair line of reasoning. Most online forums have rules against doxing. Then again, most online forums have problems with anonymous users making false claims. Is wikipedia likewise complicit for publishing articles on nefarious topics? How about linking to macdonalds.com, who is surely complicit in more deaths than kiwifarms?

Sure, it's also complicit, but the cost-benefit analysis favors Wikipedia, whereas KF has a much higher bar of utlity to clear because it's publishing information that would be trivial to use to hurt specific individuals. What value could KF provide that's worth that pain? I don't think there's any.

> it's publishing information that would be trivial to use to hurt specific individuals

But so do a lot of organizations. It's legal for kiwifarms' users and it's legal for the phone company, the federal election commission and for my city government too.

> What value could KF provide that's worth that pain? I don't think there's any.

What pain, exactly though? People claim that there have been suicides, but the claims seem dubious at best. If you call someone out for misappropriating funds and they commit suicide, is that on you?

What value? Many reporters (and regular humans) use kiwifarms to get a sense of the history, backstories and relationships of online figures and groups.

Re: DNS over Wikipedia

#138

Post by haroldp »

dale_glass wrote: post #129
haroldp wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But if I found out that something I own actually helps Nazis, then yes, I'd do my best to stop that from happening. But the internet helps nazis. Telephones help nazis. I would argue that censorship helps nazis. The real nazis were completely censored from Weimar radio and Goebbels touted Der Angriff as "the most censored newspaper" by the German government. What is our standard for "helps"? Side note: the wikipedi…

> But the internet helps nazis. Telephones help nazis. I'm a consequentialist. I'll make the decision based on the overall consequences. So for instance the internet helps nazis, but it also does a lot of good for a lot more people. Now if the effect of the internet was 99% to help nazis, that would be a problem. > Side note: the wikipedia article for stormfront retains the link to the site. Removal was discussed on…

> I'm a consequentialist.

That's how I lean too. I'm maybe just more leery of the long term consequences of censorship and proscribed ideas. I think they are ultimately poisonous.

> If it was up to me, I would not allow that link.

How would you write that policy for wikimedia, so your editors would know which articles could link to the website they describe, and which could not?

Re: DNS over Wikipedia

#139

Post by haroldp »

LastTrain wrote: post #122
haroldp wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Oh and you think you are exceptional too. Of course. Everyone does. > Shall we go for the trifecta? Shall we put your notion in a historical context or no?

Unless you are someone of historical significance, no.

Yeah, I didn't think you'd opt for that.

Re: DNS over Wikipedia

#140

Post by kevmo314 »

voxic11 wrote: post #32

Wikipedia editors have noticed that people use wikipedia for this purpose (finding the current location of sites) and so they have started to censor links for sites they don't want to encourage people to access. Right now this mostly impacts sites few would condone, like 8chan or kiwifarms. But in theory the policy applies to any site with illegal material so places like the pirate bay or scihub could have their link…

Coming soon: DNS over ChatGPT
Post reply on HN