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South Dakota first to ban TikTok on state-owned devices

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Re: South Dakota first to ban TikTok on state-owned devices

#111

Post by onetimeusename »

wildrhythms wrote: post #81
onetimeusename wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is a serious issue but underestimated. People in the US believe that the top science and engineering roles should be filled by immigrants which I don't think is sustainable or even a healthy view of education. I am basing this on the huge foreign population of our top schools and the push for H1-B visas. It can be a self fulfilling prophecy if people remove themselves from the running for STEM in earlier…

>People in the US believe that the top science and engineering roles should be filled by immigrants Huh? Anecdotally, I have never heard this sentiment before.

Ya I wrote the reasoning following that. Look at these statistics[1]. It shows the ever growing number of foreign people earning both undergraduate and graduate STEM degrees in the US.

foreign students accounted for 54% of master’s degrees and 44% of doctorate degrees issued in STEM fields in the United States in SY2016-2017.

We rely on tens of thousands of H1-B visas per year to fill STEM roles which has been debated for years. We have accepted we have to import people to sustain our economy. I am questioning the merits and sustainability of these views and whether Americans have a unhealthy view of education. We certainly hold these visa holders to higher standards than ourselves. Why?

[1]: https://crsreports.congress.gov/product/pdf/IF/IF11347

Re: South Dakota first to ban TikTok on state-owned devices

#112

Post by ebzlo »

hammock wrote: post #5

The bigger deal (bigger than the tracking that people usually focus on) might be how the algorithm is specifically tuned to reward dumb content in the US, compared to rewarding STEM and other educational content in China. One minute video that explains: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hus9fWz0RRk Further reading: https://www.opindia.com/2022/07/tiktok-china-engineering-oth...

This makes absolutely no sense to me and even as an American, often times reads like anti-China propaganda. If the algorithms are showing STEM content on the Chinese version of TikTok, it's likely the result of two reasons:

1. Chinese children prefer STEM content and the algorithm is providing that to them.

2. It's enforced by the Chinese government or someone who believes this kind of content will benefit the Chinese future.

In the case of #1, this is a cultural issue and we have no one to blame but ourselves.

In the case of #2, which I believe is what most folks who say this are suggesting, I can't imagine why children would then proceed to download the app, use it for hours a day, only to learn science and math. Sure, some may enjoy it (as some in the US would as well), but a vast majority of that market is going to reject this and delete it from their phone. In fact, we have this in the US -- we have educational TV shows, you can visit a library on your free time, etc, but kids don't do it-- because they're kids.

Re: South Dakota first to ban TikTok on state-owned devices

#113

Post by nradov »

onetimeusename wrote: post #45
hammock wrote: post #5

The bigger deal (bigger than the tracking that people usually focus on) might be how the algorithm is specifically tuned to reward dumb content in the US, compared to rewarding STEM and other educational content in China. One minute video that explains: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hus9fWz0RRk Further reading: https://www.opindia.com/2022/07/tiktok-china-engineering-oth...

I think this is a serious issue but underestimated. People in the US believe that the top science and engineering roles should be filled by immigrants which I don't think is sustainable or even a healthy view of education. I am basing this on the huge foreign population of our top schools and the push for H1-B visas. It can be a self fulfilling prophecy if people remove themselves from the running for STEM in earlier…

It's not so much people in the US who believe that top science and engineering roles should be filled by immigrants, but rather employers who want cheap labor and can control the immigration laws indirectly via lobbying and campaign contributions. US work visa laws give preference to foreign students who earn advanced degrees in US universities. Those students are thus more willing to tolerate low wages and poor treatment in PhD programs because it still beats returning to their home countries.

I don't blame the foreign students for this, but it's important to understand what's really driving the current situation.

Re: South Dakota first to ban TikTok on state-owned devices

#114

Post by nemothekid »

lo_zamoyski wrote: post #49
pasquinelli wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

sounds like china has the right idea. it takes me (in america) constantly weeding the garden of my youtube (also american) to minimize the dumb shit it shows me. so does america want stupid americans? is that not the biggest deal?

What are you proposing exactly? That the US government moderate YouTube content?

No post body was provided.

Re: South Dakota first to ban TikTok on state-owned devices

#117

Post by dmix »

gjsman-1000 wrote: post #79
blopker wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure if this claim is true or not, but the person in your first reference is Andrew Schulz. He's a comedian who has already come out to say that he made all that up, and the media just ran with it [0]. [0]: https://youtube.com/shorts/tAV3QkzHC5E

So he made it up thinking it was fake - but now it has been independently shown to be likely true. In which case he made up a conspiracy theory then demonstrated to be accurate when he thought it was a joke. https://www.china-briefing.com/news/china-passes-sweeping-re... https://www.deseret.com/2022/11/24/23467181/difference-betwe... CBS 60 Minutes Interview with an IT expert just 3 weeks ago: https://www.youtube.com…

So in China the algorithm is partially regulated, but in the rest of the world the algorithm (asia, europe, africa, americas) is just showing people what they want? Instead of what they government thinks is best for them?

Re: South Dakota first to ban TikTok on state-owned devices

#118

Post by _mway »

pasquinelli wrote: post #18
hammock wrote: post #5

The bigger deal (bigger than the tracking that people usually focus on) might be how the algorithm is specifically tuned to reward dumb content in the US, compared to rewarding STEM and other educational content in China. One minute video that explains: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hus9fWz0RRk Further reading: https://www.opindia.com/2022/07/tiktok-china-engineering-oth...

sounds like china has the right idea. it takes me (in america) constantly weeding the garden of my youtube (also american) to minimize the dumb shit it shows me. so does america want stupid americans? is that not the biggest deal?

I don't think America (as a collective) "wants stupid Americans", I think people are generally of the mind that "intelligence is good". Unfortunately, I think what that means is largely subjective in many cases, and tends to be aligned with their own interests/preferences.

My suspicion, which is mostly just me thinking out loud and is based on no real evidence, is that folks are (a) largely desensitized to stimulation due to aggressive "marketing" (in the loosest sense of the word - whether ads, click/viewbait, or other quasi-exploitative attention-grabbing things); and/or (b) have observed that, culturally, a lot of "dumb shit" is mainstream enough (in terms of critical mass within their social microcosm) to warrant conformity, and thus may be a preference that is adopted for identity or inclusivity purposes. Similarly, it may be seen as a pathway to some form of success or recognition (see: IG/YT influencers, tiktok fads, etc).

I'm sure other, much smarter folks have actual evidence or have performed studies (and I would be interested in learning more), but based on my personal experience, the above seems to hold true, generally speaking.

Re: South Dakota first to ban TikTok on state-owned devices

#119

Post by gjsman-1000 »

the_lonely_road wrote: post #89
gjsman-1000 wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it is almost certainly deliberate. In China, all companies with more than 50 employees are legally obligated to have dedicated Chinese Communist Party representatives overseeing, according to Harvard Business Publishing ( https://hbsp.harvard.edu/product/R1403J-HCB-ENG ). Social media companies? They probably have tons of mandatory representatives guiding the system. ByteDance also had a "nominal" 1% ownership ta…

Your point would be stronger if YouTube, Facebook, Instagram, and every streaming service in the country was showing the same kind of content. TikTok getting bashed for serving American consumers American content is one of the silliest trends on Hacker News.

And the CCP doesn't have ties or influence with them...

Re: South Dakota first to ban TikTok on state-owned devices

#120

Post by nemothekid »

2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote: post #106
nemothekid wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The claim isn't fake. But the idea that this is some TikTok plot to poison America is ridiculous and sinophobic. Douyin is happy show low brow garbage to Chinese netizens, just like chinese gaming companies were happy to let teens play video games 24/7. The difference is the Chinese government won't let them. America could easily do what China did here: enforce regulations on what kind of content social media compani…

> sinophobic How?

If you are concerned about the content that American's consume, there is no reason to single out TikTok. Instagram has been shoving the same garbage into the feeds of teenagers for nearly a decade and Reels is nearly exact clone of TikTok. There is little "educational" content on Instagram Reels. The solution would be regulate all the social media companies, like how China does.

If the problem is solely TikTok, then it most likely stems from the fact you don't like TikTok is owned by the Chinese (and you are more likely to believe nefarious claims that Xi Jinping personally told the TikTok CEO to make America dumber) which is sinophobic. You don't like TikTok just because it's a chinese company serving you the same garbage as an American one.

I believe there are valid reasons to ban TikTok, especially on state-owned devices, given the amount of data they exfiltrate, but "they are poisoning the American youth" is not a good one.

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