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Elon: Let Me Help You Speed Run the Content Moderation Learning Curve

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Re: Elon: Let Me Help You Speed Run the Content Moderation Learning Curve

#171

Post by rpgmaker »

tj-teej wrote: post #17
mmastrac wrote: post #6

Doesn't banning Kanye West from the platform go against his whole "free speech" thing? The absolutists say that there should just be more free speech to drown out the hateful speech. Why isn't he just encouraging people to drown it out instead? I find the unlimited free speech arguments to be disingenuous and lazy most of the time. There's always a limit to speech, and it's not easy to find. That doesn't mean we shou…

It only goes against his "free speech thing" if his "free speech thing" was actually a coherent ideology. Instead his "free speech absolutism" is a brand, it's there to signal what kind of person he is, it's not a set of principles and therefore cannot stand up to scrutiny.

there's more to it than that.. but the steps he's making are certainly better than the previous status quo. The enemy of my enemy so on and so forth.

Re: Elon: Let Me Help You Speed Run the Content Moderation Learning Curve

#173

Post by [deleted] »

CamperBob2 wrote: post #135

A lot of those issues are trivially solvable with the response, "We're a US company. We're not bound to whatever goofy laws there are in your country. If you don't like it, that's your problem, not ours. Block our site, or don't, we don't actually care." Trouble is, that's a good way to build a $5 billion social networking site, not a $50 billion one. Also a good way to get arrested seconds after setting foot in coun…

[deleted]

Re: Elon: Let Me Help You Speed Run the Content Moderation Learning Curve

#174

Post by dmix »

martindbp wrote: post #117
_ea1k wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He backed away from unlimited free speech pretty quickly. Sometimes he's said it has to do with a legal boundary, but he hasn't had consistency about that. He's been pretty clear that hated by ~50% and fine with the other 50% of the population is the old line, not the new one. Where that puts the threshold is still an open question, and unfortunately one that will likely be answered somewhat capriciously. Then again,…

Twitter before Musk banned Babylon Bee, a Christian version of The Onion, for this: "The Babylon Bee, was suspended by Twitter, after it had mockingly awarded transgender government official Rachel Levine the title 'Man of the Year.'" This is the type of speech that Elon believes should be allowed, and I agree. He has repeatedly said freedom of speech absolutism is still subject to laws, and inciting violence past th…

Going back to 2005 style internet free speech (or even 2010) sounds perfectly reasonable.

No one complained about banning a dude posting swastikas unironically in 2005. The Overton Window has radically changed since then and not for the better.

Re: Elon: Let Me Help You Speed Run the Content Moderation Learning Curve

#175

Post by umvi »

Etheryte wrote: post #170
umvi wrote: post #162

> “Right, boss, apparently because you keep talking about freedom, a large group of people are taking it to mean they have ‘freedom’ to harass people with slurs and all sorts of abuse. People are leaving the site because of it, and advertisers are pulling ads.” > That seems bad. Quick, have someone write up some rules against hate speech. > Level Four: “We’re the free speech platform without CSAM, infringement or hat…

Hate speech is illegal in numerous countries, Germany being the most prominent example. That specific case is covered in the article, too.

Well then the crux of the issue is that you cannot build a global free speech platform. What is free speech in USA is illegal speech in Germany, China, etc. If you really want a free speech platform, you can only really deploy it in countries that respect the same level of free speech (or greater) as your own. And that's leaving a lot of money on the table for publicly traded companies, hence free speech morals go out the window in favor of growth/region-specific censorship.

Re: Elon: Let Me Help You Speed Run the Content Moderation Learning Curve

#176

Post by sangnoir »

martindbp wrote: post #117
_ea1k wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He backed away from unlimited free speech pretty quickly. Sometimes he's said it has to do with a legal boundary, but he hasn't had consistency about that. He's been pretty clear that hated by ~50% and fine with the other 50% of the population is the old line, not the new one. Where that puts the threshold is still an open question, and unfortunately one that will likely be answered somewhat capriciously. Then again,…

Twitter before Musk banned Babylon Bee, a Christian version of The Onion, for this: "The Babylon Bee, was suspended by Twitter, after it had mockingly awarded transgender government official Rachel Levine the title 'Man of the Year.'" This is the type of speech that Elon believes should be allowed, and I agree. He has repeatedly said freedom of speech absolutism is still subject to laws, and inciting violence past th…

> This is the type of speech that Elon believes should be allowed, and I agree.

And yet when the same satire it directed at Musk, he blows a gasket. Jeph Jacques[1] changed his profile picture and name to Musk's and tweeted (paraphrasing) "I like drinking my own piss first thing in the morning" and got permabanned for it. It was clearly satire to me, and broke no laws AFAICT.

1. Author of Questionable Content webcomic

Re: Elon: Let Me Help You Speed Run the Content Moderation Learning Curve

#177

Post by dmix »

teaearlgraycold wrote: post #132
woah wrote: post #125

One big online platform that has totally skimped on reasonable moderation is the charmingly named "E-Mail". Child porn, copyright infringement, harassment, hate speech, spam, you name it. Anything goes. It's a complete free-for-all. Giant internet companies like Google and Microsoft make billions of dollars a year through their partnerships with the E-Mail platform. These big companies do make a token effort to remov…

Email is one to one or one to many. Twitter is one to all. The burden of responsibility is different because of the scope of reach.

You can still choose who you follow on Twitter. It seems to be moving back towards that idea, which is good.

It's pretty easy to avoid political bullshit if you are careful with following.

For years Twitter used to make it impossibly hard to switch to just "latest tweets" instead of their awful recommendation feed which include likes/rts of people you don't even follow. No wonder Twitter became such a heated trainwreck when content feeds were no longer opt-in.

Re: Elon: Let Me Help You Speed Run the Content Moderation Learning Curve

#178

Post by gjulianm »

memish wrote: post #146
martindbp wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is unfortunately exactly what will happen. What is scary to me is how censorship has become completely accepted by the new generation, including software engineers here in their 20s. No true hacker (this is Hacker News after all) would be OK with corporation or government censorship. Slippery slope is real.

Exactly. Hackers are naturally anti-authoritarian. Anyone who can give you orders can stop you from solving whatever problem you're being fascinated by -- and, given the way authoritarian minds work, will generally find some appallingly stupid reason to do so. So the authoritarian attitude has to be fought wherever you find it, lest it smother you and other hackers. Authoritarians thrive on censorship and secrecy. An…

> Authoritarians thrive on censorship and secrecy.

And authoritarians also thrive on chaos and propaganda. The recent rise in authoritarianism hasn't been related to censorship and secrecy as much as chaos, misdirection, conspiracy theories and forced polarization.

Re: Elon: Let Me Help You Speed Run the Content Moderation Learning Curve

#179

Post by stcroixx »

themitigating wrote: post #96
lesuorac wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is that officially what got Kanye banned? My understanding is that Twitter did not specify what exactly (i.e. which set of tweets) Kanye is banned for.

I'm referring to pre musk ban. The exact tweet was “I’m a bit sleepy tonight but when I wake up I’m going death con 3 On JEWISH PEOPLE,” Someone was proposing incitement to violence has a threahold etc. This to me is clearly incitement to violence. Some have claimed he didn't know what "death con" (defcon) means to which I say what could he have possibly meant. It's on Jewish People.

Defcon is a defense term indicating a level of preparedness. I don't see how it could possibly be argued that preparation and an incitement to violence are the same thing. Words matter even if he doesn't know what they mean. Would be very interesting to see that attempted.

Personally, I think he probably meant something else that very likely could have been closer to an incitement of violence, but he doesn't have the vocabulary and we can't convict someone for what you think might be in their head.

Re: Elon: Let Me Help You Speed Run the Content Moderation Learning Curve

#180

Post by colordrops »

themitigating wrote: post #76
colordrops wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did he post a swastika? I'm not aware of what exactly got him banned. Wasn't Elon talking about the US anyway? Political speech itself is banned in many countries, so surely that wasn't his measure.

He also appeared on Alex Jones and was accompanied by white supremacist Nick Fuente and decided to go all in. The rapper said: “I see good things about Hitler … Every human being has something of value that they brought to the table, especially Hitler.” Jones replied: “The Nazis were thugs.” “But they did good things too,” Ye said. “We gotta stop dissing the Nazis all the time.” “Oh my goodness … just because you don…

Crazy seeing Alex Jones as the level headed person in the room.
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