Earlier quoted context omitted.
Thought so.
If you thought so, then why post what you did?
Because in a civilized world the burden of proof is on the person who claims something, not on the one asking questions
Estonia saved its citizens 820 years by moving public services online
221–230 of 230 posts
Re: Estonia saved its citizens 820 years by moving public services online
#222Time wasted filling in forms and talking to service staff should really be tracked and associated with the business or government agency, then it's possible to actually assign a "bureaucracy/red-tape tax" based on the hours they waste for people using the service. Without externalizing the cost of all the time wasted, it's just too easy to push time-costs on to the consumers/citizens. It's already a huge problem, and…
A major loss of productivity? I think maybe i've spent an hour at the DMV in the past 10 years. I spend maybe an hour or two each year doing my taxes. I struggle to think of a single other case where my time is consumed with dealing with any kind of bureaucracy. I'm not convinced it's a major problem.
For every person who spends 2 hours of their year dealing with US bureaucracy there are loads more that spend untold hours. I myself spent almost two days figuring out my taxes because they're just more complicated. And people dealing with unemployment, health insurance via COBRA/medicaid/medicare, food stamps, registering to vote, applying for various licenses, etc. It's ungodly amounts of time when you add it all up.
I AM convinced it's a major problem. Maybe not for white-collar people on Hacker News who have paid sick leave, random leave times and no expectations of certain hours, and high pay. But for many working class people in the US dealing with bureaucratic nonsense IS a big deal.
Re: Estonia saved its citizens 820 years by moving public services online
#223Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I show up 10-15 min before my scheduled time and wait for the call for my booking; Go in, talk to someone, take pictures/collect fingerprints and get out. The last time I personally did license renewal, I waited approximately that long without an appointment, and the place had a line out the door.
Having an appointment at least makes you sure you will get it done around that time and schedule your day around it. Showing up without one makes it impossible to plan for the rest of the day if you are unfortunate to go do it on a bad day, no?
> Having an appointment at least makes you sure you will get it done around that time and schedule your day around it. Showing up without one makes it impossible to plan for the rest of the day if you are unfortunate to go do it on a bad day, no?
Theoretically yes, but practically it's moot. Were I live I don't think I've ever had to wait in line more than 10-15 minutes, even at what seemed to be "busy times." If the wait times are that short, it's more trouble to make an appointment and still wait about that long.
Re: Estonia saved its citizens 820 years by moving public services online
#224Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'd go the other way; we really should require retesting for driver's license renewals. New Jersey for example just enacted a "safe passing" law earlier this year in an attempt to make bicyclists and pedestrians safer. But existing drivers will never have to demonstrate that they know this because we never retest people after they get their license once.
Then we should have licenses for bicyclists too! The reason we have licenses (aka controls on who can drive cars) is to curb dangerous and irresponsible driving, mark drivers for driving egregiously, and remove people or not allow drivers on the road when they don't have the motor skills to navigate a vehicle on the road. Knowing the rules is secondary, if not tertiary. Otherwise bicyclists should also have licenses…
Bikes are not dangerous (unless you're talking about e-bikes with beefy frames and tires), if you get hit by a bike as a pedestrian you're probably only getting bruised.
Cars are absolute murder machines.
Re: Estonia saved its citizens 820 years by moving public services online
#225Earlier quoted context omitted.
I worked for a private company contracted to provide a portion of a public service and later got employed by the the government agency. - The contractor had no budget. Our servers were out of date and we were running out of date OSes and software. We were all paid below standard and overworked. - We had a tiny budget at the agency to buy things at the very end of the year. We ran up to date software and OSes, except…
But if the lowest bidder has some kind of penalty to pay if average queueing time goes over 15 minutes or random members of the public rate the service provided below 3/5 stars, then they'll do a much better job.
We were contracted because the agency lost lawsuits and had to payout and change policies. The contractor was never successfully sued, but I had to compile lawsuit discovery documents 6 times in 2 years.
Re: Estonia saved its citizens 820 years by moving public services online
#226Earlier quoted context omitted.
Having an appointment at least makes you sure you will get it done around that time and schedule your day around it. Showing up without one makes it impossible to plan for the rest of the day if you are unfortunate to go do it on a bad day, no?
> Having an appointment at least makes you sure you will get it done around that time and schedule your day around it. Showing up without one makes it impossible to plan for the rest of the day if you are unfortunate to go do it on a bad day, no? Theoretically yes, but practically it's moot. Were I live I don't think I've ever had to wait in line more than 10-15 minutes, even at what seemed to be "busy times." If the…
> Were I live I don't think I've ever had to wait in line more than 10-15 minutes, even at what seemed to be "busy times."
That's nice for you. Every time I've gone to my local DMV I've waited at least 45 minutes, even with an appointment. Luckily I work remotely so I could work from the waiting area, but most people don't have that luxury and are forced to take an indefinite time off of work to go to the DMV.
Re: Estonia saved its citizens 820 years by moving public services online
#227Earlier quoted context omitted.
They do, you need to submit at-most 6 month old photo while renewing. Or go to the office to take one. Either way, you also still need to go get the document from the office as it is only handed over by person (but you can pre-book a time slot!). Passport is a bit more complicated, since it requires fingerprints as well.
I don't know what to tell you, I renewed my 2-year-old REAL ID with no new photo in NJ remotely, no appointment or updated photo necessary. I did have to go to an appointment to convert my previous ID into a REAL ID, so maybe that's what you mean.
Oof, now that you mentioned NJ I took a second look of the context .. you were talking about US. I mistakenly thought your comment was about Estonia..
Re: Estonia saved its citizens 820 years by moving public services online
#228Earlier quoted context omitted.
Couldn't the government (or state) simply run ad campaigns for a couple of weeks informing the public of new changes? Edit: Most changes are not rocket science, you simply need to be aware of them.
A simple ad campaign running for a few weeks hardly reaches everybody. Not even close to.
People discuss with each other. Someone from social sciences could probably back me up but out of my ass it'd prob. be enough to each 1/4 of people (likely less) and it'd eventually spread to everyone through word-of-mouth.
Re: Estonia saved its citizens 820 years by moving public services online
#229Earlier quoted context omitted.
España es un desastre. Yo me he ido. Y va a ser difícil que vuelva. Vaya cómo está el tema... de pena todo.
Podría ser mucho peor, el problema no es lo mal que está, el problema es que en términos generales no mejora. Hay países en el este de Europa que claramente están progresando, sus estados, su economía, su sociedad. España cada vez está más dividida, pobre, y su sociedad más tensionada.
Eso en parte es porque la gente se concentra en el mensaje polarizador de los políticos en vez de ocuparse de lo importante, que es de qué vamos a vivir y cómo y cómo vamos a reducir la deuda y pagar las pensiones o mejorar el mercado laboral.
En cambio lo que oirás es que si los nacionalismos, que si LGTBQ o qué malos son unos o los otros en todas direcciones.
No tengo nada en contra ni de esos grupos ni de indepes ni de nadie a nivel personal. Tan solo pienso que no es lo fundamental y toda esa gente se mete ahí para sacar tajada.
Por eso no voto ni votaré.
Re: Estonia saved its citizens 820 years by moving public services online
#230Earlier quoted context omitted.
Podría ser mucho peor, el problema no es lo mal que está, el problema es que en términos generales no mejora. Hay países en el este de Europa que claramente están progresando, sus estados, su economía, su sociedad. España cada vez está más dividida, pobre, y su sociedad más tensionada.
Eso en parte es porque la gente se concentra en el mensaje polarizador de los políticos en vez de ocuparse de lo importante, que es de qué vamos a vivir y cómo y cómo vamos a reducir la deuda y pagar las pensiones o mejorar el mercado laboral. En cambio lo que oirás es que si los nacionalismos, que si LGTBQ o qué malos son unos o los otros en todas direcciones. No tengo nada en contra ni de esos grupos ni de indepes…
Es un diagnóstico que comparto.