Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Company, Team, Self

lethain.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

41–50 of 64 posts

Re: Company, Team, Self

#41

Post by n0w »

xyzelement wrote: post #15
n0w wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is something I really struggle with. I think this difference of perspective is one of my greatest strengths, but in the last few places I've been I ended up burning out trying to get others to see the same things. Have you got any tips or advice for getting better at "persuasive education" or inspiring others to see the same things?

It's not just you who struggles with this - it's a very hard thing to do even for those who do it a lot. The number one barrier is just recognizing that it's a thing and you can work on it and do consciously (and sounds like you did that, so that's already huge!) In fact, what distinguishes executives is their experience, ability and willingness to get others to see and rally around a problem or goal - which is why I…

Thank you for taking the time to reply so thoroughly, this seems like very actionable advice. Sounds like it's going to take a lot of effort to put into practice, but that it'll be effort well spent!

Re: Company, Team, Self

#42

Post by oytis »

misthop wrote: post #3

It's always about incentive misalignment. As an employee thinking Company first will improve the bottom line for the company. As an executive thinking company first may well eliminate me as an employee. Why should an employee put the company interests above their own with that incentive alignment? The company should work to make the company's interests serve the individual interests of the employees

I understand it as being about technical decisions rather than interests. Engineers are inclined to make architectural decisions that align with their idea of what is fun to do. But really fulfilling work is the one that is being used and serves the purpose.

Say I've seen a QA engineer designing an elaborate formal verification framework that took a lot of time, but failed to test anything engineers or customers cared about. Can't tell if he himself was happy with the result, but I wouldn't want to be in his shoes.

Re: Company, Team, Self

#43

Post by Brigand »

zug_zug wrote: post #39

Company, Team, Self is backward, but not in the way you think. It's backward because it's advice given to employees, when it needs to be given to be given to management. Employees will and should do self-interest. It's the EXECUTIVES's duty/problem to ensure that they make workers' self-interests clearly aligned with Customers/ Company/Team/Self. It's an interesting exercise to consider how to make it in an employee'…

There is no way for executives to create a well working company if the employees think of nothing but themselves.

Re: Company, Team, Self

#44

Post by WJW »

xyzelement wrote: post #37
rqtwteye wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“Certainly all the good gains in my career happened as a consequence of achieving big things for the company, which I wouldn't have landed with me-first thinking.” You did me-first. You just had situations where what was good for the company was good for you too. If you repeatedly did what was good for the company but never got anything for yourself you would probably stop. A lot of people are in a situation where wh…

Yes and I think the advice in those situations is "leave" - nobody (smart) is suggesting you go company-first in those cases.

While I agree that "leave" is probably the best answer in such cases, I also observe that this advice does not appear anywhere in the article.

Re: Company, Team, Self

#45

Post by vdqtp3 »

Brigand wrote: post #43
zug_zug wrote: post #39

Company, Team, Self is backward, but not in the way you think. It's backward because it's advice given to employees, when it needs to be given to be given to management. Employees will and should do self-interest. It's the EXECUTIVES's duty/problem to ensure that they make workers' self-interests clearly aligned with Customers/ Company/Team/Self. It's an interesting exercise to consider how to make it in an employee'…

There is no way for executives to create a well working company if the employees think of nothing but themselves.

Sure there is. Compensate them for accomplishing tasks that benefit the company. If they do not benefit the company, stop compensating them. We call this practice employment.

Re: Company, Team, Self

#46

Post by oytis »

lifeisstillgood wrote: post #6
misthop wrote: post #3

It's always about incentive misalignment. As an employee thinking Company first will improve the bottom line for the company. As an executive thinking company first may well eliminate me as an employee. Why should an employee put the company interests above their own with that incentive alignment? The company should work to make the company's interests serve the individual interests of the employees

Yes. And may I suggest a simple method: have employees vote for executives Incentives align naturally when there is two way feedback

Businesses are not made for employees though.

Re: Company, Team, Self

#48

Post by Brigand »

vdqtp3 wrote: post #45
Brigand wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no way for executives to create a well working company if the employees think of nothing but themselves.

Sure there is. Compensate them for accomplishing tasks that benefit the company. If they do not benefit the company, stop compensating them. We call this practice employment.

There are numerous ways for a purely self-serving employee to give the appearance of creating benefit to the company while doing as little as possible. Emplyoment in general only works because the employees in many cases actually care about the quality of their work and not only about themselves.

Re: Company, Team, Self

#49

Post by _demilich »

> As I’ve become a more experienced manager, I’ve stopped giving this advice. I still believe it’s the correct advice

No it is not the correct advice. It is an oversimplification. It might be an easy rule to remember and follow, but like many of those it fails to deal adequately with the subtleties of the real world.

Re: Company, Team, Self

#50

Post by skeeter2020 »

Brigand wrote: post #43
zug_zug wrote: post #39

Company, Team, Self is backward, but not in the way you think. It's backward because it's advice given to employees, when it needs to be given to be given to management. Employees will and should do self-interest. It's the EXECUTIVES's duty/problem to ensure that they make workers' self-interests clearly aligned with Customers/ Company/Team/Self. It's an interesting exercise to consider how to make it in an employee'…

There is no way for executives to create a well working company if the employees think of nothing but themselves.

Isn't this the single job of management though, to come up with an approach that is mutually beneficial so that an employee pursuing what's in their best interest moves the team and company forward, and conversely putting the company & team first benefits the individual?
Post reply on HN