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Mastering Stratego

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Re: Mastering Stratego

#71
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fascinating games. But I played a lot of Stratego as a kid, and I remember 1 was the strongest piece and 9 was the weakest. In these videos it seems 10 is strongest and 2 is weakest and that's making it confusing to watch. Did the pieces change sometime in the past 40 years or am I imagining things?

I've just watched a video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HYQbGHgaWbM that talks about "original" Stratego, a game created in 1947 by Jacques Johan Mogendorff. It might be nostalgic for you. Searching to find out whether "original" is the current version, I've noticed that https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stratego#Versions answers your question "European versions of the game give the Marshal the highest number (10), whi…

I guess that makes me one of those complaining Americans. If I ever get back into the game, I'll have to get used to the new numbers.

Re: Mastering Stratego

#73
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fascinating games. But I played a lot of Stratego as a kid, and I remember 1 was the strongest piece and 9 was the weakest. In these videos it seems 10 is strongest and 2 is weakest and that's making it confusing to watch. Did the pieces change sometime in the past 40 years or am I imagining things?

I've just watched a video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HYQbGHgaWbM that talks about "original" Stratego, a game created in 1947 by Jacques Johan Mogendorff. It might be nostalgic for you. Searching to find out whether "original" is the current version, I've noticed that https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stratego#Versions answers your question "European versions of the game give the Marshal the highest number (10), whi…

[deleted]

Re: Mastering Stratego

#74
Tangentially taking this opportunity to mention the far-superior "Lying and Cheating" version of Stratego, that (as far as I know) my father invented.

It makes the game so much more interesting, IMO. Played it a lot as a child.

Here are the basic rules, when a piece is attacked:

  * The attacker says what their piece is, without showing it (they can lie)
  * The defender says whether they believe that
  * The defender says what their piece is, without showing it (they can lie)
  * The attacker says whether they believe that
  * ONLY IF someone calls a bluff is that piece revealed. Otherwise, it is treated as the piece it was claimed to be, and kept hidden.
  * If someone calls a bluff, and they were right, then the other player loses a piece (reach over and remove any piece you like)
  ** If you pick their flag, then you win — game over.
  * Likewise, if someone calls a bluff but is wrong, then *they* lose a piece. 
  * After all of that is resolved, do combat as normal, with pieces having either their revealed or not-revealed claimed value, as appropriate.
Once you resolve all this, there is no "memory" - you can claim it is a different piece in the future.

Some minutiae:

  * You can move any piece as though it were a Scout (9), but when you do the move, the other player can call your bluff since you're essentially claiming it is a Scout at that moment. Resolve that bluff/call before completing the move.
  * You could even call a bluff on *any* move someone makes, if you believe that piece is a bomb or flag (and thus cannot move).
  * You can attack with a bomb! It's a two-step process: first you move (and they could call your bluff, if they know it is a bomb - see above). Then, when the attack happens, you say it *is* a bomb. Of course, your opponent may say their piece is a Miner, and if you haven't seen it, it's a dangerous proposition (since bombs are rare).
  ** You can also do a variant where bombs can't attack (by attacking, you are claiming it is *not* a bomb). I prefer the above version.
Overall, I find this version of the game is a lot less boring. Since you'll probably get several pieces zapped over the course of the game, it affects your flag placement. Plus, you can move flags and bombs, making it more dynamic. Also, the "remember where things were" aspect is even more poignant, since once a piece has been revealed, it loses all the power of being whatever-is-needed-right-now (assuming the other player has a good memory).

So, for instance, you can do something crazy like move your bomb as though it were a Scout, all the way across the board, onto an opponent's piece, but then claim it's a "5" instead for the attack. Then if it survives, just let it sit there, continuing to be a bomb in the future (causing havoc).

Re: Mastering Stratego

#75

Tangentially taking this opportunity to mention the far-superior "Lying and Cheating" version of Stratego, that (as far as I know) my father invented. It makes the game so much more interesting, IMO. Played it a lot as a child. Here are the basic rules, when a piece is attacked: * The attacker says what their piece is, without showing it (they can lie) * The defender says whether they believe that * The defender says…

We did something simpler in the same spirit, borrowing from poker rules. When you attack, you must reveal, but as the defender, you can remove your own piece without revealing what it was (even if it would have been the winning piece, although removing a winning piece is very seldomly of actual strategic value). Even this slight tweak goes a long way towards spicing up the game.

Re: Mastering Stratego

#77
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All Poker AIs developped as yet approaches Nash Equilibrium -- it's just a "perfect" strategy that wins by default because it makes no mistakes. Since you make mistakes against the AI strategy, and the sum of the game of poker is 0, you lose by default. No poker bots yet I know of have developed "exploitative" strategies, where they deviate from the Nash Equilibrium strategy to exploit opponent mistakes. Back when I…

Nash equilibriums exist when bluffing is involved? It seems like it would introduce a level of predictability that would make it easier to know when the opponent is bluffing.

Bluffing isn’t really something one needs to compensate for. Bluffing as a game rule simply means that all hands or values may be max or min values, but the idea is that if you are making bets based on the mathematics of your hand itself this isn’t so pertinent.

Re: Mastering Stratego

#78
post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It generalizes as well as GPT-3 does: --- If you took the word "Wikipedia", and threw all the letters up in the air, what are some possible things they'd spell once they fell on the ground again? If you took the word "Wikipedia" and threw all the letters up in the air, some possible things they could spell once they fell on the ground again might include "kawipieda," "keiapwidi," "kipedwaia," "pwakieida," or "eipawik…

We don't know how well it is generalising to your input without knowing the training data. Failure cases however tell us a lot, such as the following: Input: "If five cats can catch five mice in five minutes, how long will it take one cat to catch one mouse?" Output: "If five cats can catch five mice in five minutes, then it will take one cat one minute to catch one mouse. This is because the number of cats and mice…

> We don't know how well it is generalising to your input without knowing the training data

Are you claiming its training data has letter permutations of the word “Wikipedia”?

It’s actually pretty capable of doing basic combinatorics.

Re: Mastering Stratego

#80

I 404'ed when I tried to access the source code? https://github.com/deepmind/open_spiel/tree/master/open_%20s... Someone needs to create a web front end for this -- I would love to play it.

As beefman noted in another comment, the problem is that the link has a space "%20". The correct link is https://github.com/deepmind/open_spiel/tree/master/open_spie...
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