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Sperm counts worldwide are plummeting faster than we thought

nationalgeographic.com

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Re: Sperm counts worldwide are plummeting faster than we thought

#851

Post by ropable »

jamiegreen wrote: post #438
zug_zug wrote: post #151

So this trend has been going on for a while now, I looked a bit into it about 5 years ago here's what I found: - Tons of popular and legal products/chemicals are "endocrine disruptors"[1] (fancy term for mess with hormones). - The FDA/EPA doesn't deny that, they don't themselves even really require tests for long-term health effects in humans (too difficult). Instead they give animals a 1000x+ dose and look for immed…

As someone who is too lazy to do their own research on this topic....did you happen to find which products generally contain the most endocrine disruptors?

If I recall correctly, the best way to avoid immediate exposure to this class of chemical was to avoid heat your food inside plastic containers (typically in a microwave) as this can mobilise some of the more volatile endocrine-disrupting compounds into your meal.

Re: Sperm counts worldwide are plummeting faster than we thought

#852

Post by LdSGSgvupDV »

SoftTalker wrote: post #701
BeFlatXIII wrote: post #402

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have a societal problem when the rational individual choice (to provide your children the best head start) is to wait until your fertility declines to have children.

There is also a lot of pressure on women to "have a career" which contributes to them waiting to marry and have kids. It's not really possible to optimize both being a mother and having a career, it's all tradeoffs and those who choose motherhood and a more domestic life are made to feel like they have sacrificed or lost out on something.

According to divorce rate, I think it is reasonable to choose "have a career" first. At least, it would be financially independent.

Re: Sperm counts worldwide are plummeting faster than we thought

#853

Post by dham »

nonrandomstring wrote: post #822
dham wrote: post #769

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just use glass. I never understood plastic containers. Basically just use shit that existed 50 years ago for food. Iron pans, store in glass, butter, lard. If you spill stuff on a couch just live with it. Buy leather. Too many things are made because people are lazy. If you have kids don't have nice stuff, it's very easy.

> If you have kids don't have nice stuff, it's very easy. An unexpected upshot is that in a functional household you can let them play like actual children, without the cloying anxiety and constant shrieks of "For Gods sake Tristan and Tarquin, not on the Louis Vuitton !!"

Yea, I just laugh when my friends have all this nice stuff then they start having kids. I have a modest house with basic stuff. Walls were drawn all over, I just paint them. Furniture has paint, markers, things get spilt on it. Daughter thought it was cool to use permanent marker from a drawer on hardwood floors. Didn't come off, will probably have to resurface eventually, but literally who cares. Who am I trying impress? I look at these things as memories and try to fix what I can.

Re: Sperm counts worldwide are plummeting faster than we thought

#854

Post by afarviral »

dham wrote: post #769
DevX101 wrote: post #158

The thesis of the book 'Countdown' is that this is largely due to widespread plastic and other endocrine disrupting chemicals. I believe this is one of the most important risks to humanity, after climate change, and global war. So far, I've taken some lifestyle changes to combat this: 1) Threw out all of my teflon cooking pans 2) Refuse to consume food in heated plastics 3) Throw out teabags (they have plastics). Use…

Just use glass. I never understood plastic containers. Basically just use shit that existed 50 years ago for food. Iron pans, store in glass, butter, lard. If you spill stuff on a couch just live with it. Buy leather. Too many things are made because people are lazy. If you have kids don't have nice stuff, it's very easy.

But the paper the butter/lard is packaged in contains PFAS/plastics, or you can use something else... packaged in plastic! The entire supply chain is polluted in the name of efficiency/cost (reduction of spoilage, less weight etc) and most people live in the most populated places where it's not possible to source diary directly from the animal in to a glass receptacle. A personal change to use glass is something I'm doing and many might want to consider, but so much of the problem is systematic. "Just use glass" is good, but insufficient.

Re: Sperm counts worldwide are plummeting faster than we thought

#855

Post by TexanFeller »

One thing that I'm genuinely curious about that I've never heard addressed is whether the large increase of people identifying as trans(trans women in particular) could be related to the same factors that are causing lowered sperm counts and testosterone in men. There are massive amounts of compounds in our environment that are endocrine disrupters or mimic sex hormones like estrogen. Like maybe many persons assumed to be trans could be people affected by the same environmental contaminants or other factors that are behind those and that's why they end up feeling different than typical for their sex? Maybe they would even benefit more from hormone treatments in the opposite direction than the "gender affirming" treatments. How do we know we need to affirm their gender feelings instead of treat their medical problems? I haven't heard anyone in any public forum try to explain in good faith why or why not explanations other than what they feel being completely natural might be the case.

Re: Sperm counts worldwide are plummeting faster than we thought

#856

Post by kazinator »

njovin wrote: post #352
rootusrootus wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps we need to invest in more testing, and then work on a whitelist instead of blacklist approach.

I've heard on a few podcasts that this is how European countries do this. We need to stop letting for-profit companies gamble with the health and longevity of the species in the interest of profits.

The species that mutilates and heats the planet, and which created those companies?

This may be a long-overdue self-correction.

Global infertility may just be what solves global warming.

Re: Sperm counts worldwide are plummeting faster than we thought

#857

Post by TexanFeller »

Karawebnetwork wrote: post #765
Dig1t wrote: post #559

There is an excellent book on this topic called "Countdown". I highly recommend it. The author goes into detail about the causes (mostly phthalates, chemicals added to flexible plastics), presents good science to back it up, and overall is just very thorough. I found it compelling and well written. Another interesting tidbit presented in the book: the increase in the number of trans people is very likely also correla…

> the increase in the number of trans people is very likely also correlated with the decrease in sperm counts (due to phthalate exposure) There are no studies showing a clear link between trans identities and phthlate. Correlation is not causation. It's dangerous to push the idea that minorities are caused by chemicals. It is pure speculation to suggest that it could affect the way a person behaves and responds to so…

> It's dangerous to push the idea that minorities are caused by chemicals.

But if it is true it could be dangerous to them for us not to discuss the possibility. If they are people with a medical problem rather than a perfectly naturally occurring identity then we may not be giving them the treatments that will help them most while causing them the least harm. What if there were treatments that would mitigate or reverse the effects of environmental exposure and allow them to feel normal with the gender expression typical of their sex?

Re: Sperm counts worldwide are plummeting faster than we thought

#858

Post by csomar »

TexanFeller wrote: post #855

One thing that I'm genuinely curious about that I've never heard addressed is whether the large increase of people identifying as trans(trans women in particular) could be related to the same factors that are causing lowered sperm counts and testosterone in men. There are massive amounts of compounds in our environment that are endocrine disrupters or mimic sex hormones like estrogen. Like maybe many persons assumed…

No. Trans people have existed for quite a long time. It just happens that the "West" has become more accepting of them, and since it is the "West" that gets most of the media attention it's looking like a new thing with them coming out.

Re: Sperm counts worldwide are plummeting faster than we thought

#859

Post by jemmyw »

horsawlarway wrote: post #637
jamiegreen wrote: post #438

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who is too lazy to do their own research on this topic....did you happen to find which products generally contain the most endocrine disruptors?

They'll be in basically all of the plastic around you - since the chemicals do a good job at plasticizing (making plastic less brittle). If you want a more thorough list, the NIH compiled this --- What are some common endocrine disruptors? Bisphenol A (BPA) — used to make polycarbonate plastics and epoxy resins, which are found in many plastic products including food storage containers Dioxins — produced as a byprodu…

The problem with going for BPA free products is that they tend to use alternatives that probably have the same issue as BPA they just haven't been tested to the same degree yet.

Re: Sperm counts worldwide are plummeting faster than we thought

#860

Post by yarg »

csomar wrote: post #858
TexanFeller wrote: post #855

One thing that I'm genuinely curious about that I've never heard addressed is whether the large increase of people identifying as trans(trans women in particular) could be related to the same factors that are causing lowered sperm counts and testosterone in men. There are massive amounts of compounds in our environment that are endocrine disrupters or mimic sex hormones like estrogen. Like maybe many persons assumed…

No. Trans people have existed for quite a long time. It just happens that the "West" has become more accepting of them, and since it is the "West" that gets most of the media attention it's looking like a new thing with them coming out.

Proving the existence of noise does not prove the non-existence of a signal.
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