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Can anyone shed light on in what way this is more challenging than the starcraft or dota agents, which also had to work with imperfect information?
Earlier quoted context omitted.
Is Tactics the same thing as execution? Like is it just the speed of your clicking? Or is it more than that, like the most basic kinds of strategic decisons?
in dota the tactics is to do with the execution of abilities, often times in coordination with other agents in execution of their abilities to get combo effects while adapting to the situation as it unravels.
Its skills for bluffing are both fascinating and a bit scary.
[0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HaUdWoSMjSY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-9ZXmyNKgs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EOalLpAfDSs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MhNoYl_g8mo
There's an extra space in the link to their code (at the end of the article). The correct URL is: https://github.com/deepmind/open_spiel/tree/master/open_spie...
Can anyone shed light on in what way this is more challenging than the starcraft or dota agents, which also had to work with imperfect information?
Dota is a pretty local game. 70% tactics, 20% strategy. Maybe 10% information. Yes you have warding game but for an AI with no cost of looking at heroes inventories (humans need to waste attention and move their map) AI already has huge advantage over humans in the imperfect information part. Usually fighting into the imperfect information is the bad choice. Stratego is 40% information, 40% strategy, maybe 10% tactic…
(The old joke is that Dota is a 1 v 9 game, not a 5 v 5)
Earlier quoted context omitted.
Dota is a pretty local game. 70% tactics, 20% strategy. Maybe 10% information. Yes you have warding game but for an AI with no cost of looking at heroes inventories (humans need to waste attention and move their map) AI already has huge advantage over humans in the imperfect information part. Usually fighting into the imperfect information is the bad choice. Stratego is 40% information, 40% strategy, maybe 10% tactic…
Is Tactics the same thing as execution? Like is it just the speed of your clicking? Or is it more than that, like the most basic kinds of strategic decisons?
It's obviously not about clicking fast, but it is about timing, sometimes 100 milliseconds reaction time make huge difference in outcome. It is usually making decisions on very small time scales. Do you retreat or continue? Use ability or hold it? Can you overextend?
The only meaningful strategic decisions in dota (which you have long time frame of deciding and effect the game for a long duration) are draft (which AI doesn't really master, they reduced the heroes pool to simplify) and item purchases, and there are only a handful of them (~6) in an entire game. Other decisions don't really have a long "memory" time, a minute or two at the most. After two minutes every other decision is just reduced to the relative advantage between the teams.
There used to be one hero in Dota which made it a strategy game instead (techies). But it was like playing a different game and everyone hated it and it was effectively removed. Techies was like playing stratego against chess players, they obviously get pissed off by not playing what they wanted.
It's interesting to watch the videos they link of deepmind playing against the top-level Stratego masters [0]. I usually find Stratego to be a bit of a dull game (less elegant and more drawn out than Go and chess), but I'm a sucker for watching top-level AIs play. Its skills for bluffing are both fascinating and a bit scary. [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HaUdWoSMjSY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-9ZXmyNKgs h…
It's interesting to watch the videos they link of deepmind playing against the top-level Stratego masters [0]. I usually find Stratego to be a bit of a dull game (less elegant and more drawn out than Go and chess), but I'm a sucker for watching top-level AIs play. Its skills for bluffing are both fascinating and a bit scary. [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HaUdWoSMjSY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-9ZXmyNKgs h…
Are these games against stratego masters? I'm watching the first one, but it doesn't say who they're playing against
Feels like the secret sauce has to be probability distributions guessing what all the pieces are.
Bluffing in stratego seems like it requires long-term planning (if you move a 2 like a 10, you have to keep treating it like that for the bluff to work).