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TSMC to make 4nm chips in Arizona for Apple, AMD, Nvidia

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Re: TSMC to make 4nm chips in Arizona for Apple, AMD, Nvidia

#431

Post by speed_spread »

jimbob45 wrote: post #246
menshiki wrote: post #235

Great news for the US. Great news for Apple, AMD, and Nvidia. Not so good news for Taiwan. The fact that the whole tech world is dependent on chips produced in Hsinchu is a huge advantage for the safety of Taiwan. Moving the fabs and talent further away from the island will not benefit the people of Taiwan at all. TSMC with its global influence has been a huge factor for guaranteeing safety of the island and peace in…

Does China still want Taiwan if it's no longer technologically relevant? My understanding is that China is making similar strides in its own chip industry to the point where TSMC won't be as nearly as useful to them in 10 years as it is now.

Taiwan is the only place China can have a deep water port required by a fleet of nuclear submarines. Mainland coast waters are too shallow.

Re: TSMC to make 4nm chips in Arizona for Apple, AMD, Nvidia

#433

Post by mixmastamyk »

deltaseventhree wrote: post #373
mixmastamyk wrote: post #339

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Short-sighted comment. You know how you develop expertise? That’s right, you invest in it.

Long sigted. The investment starts from scratch. Why not invest in some places cheaper? Why not invest in a place that has better expertise? Overall the long term vision is to wrestle some control away from China. That is the long term bet the US and tsmc are ultimately making and what's driving the decision. But economically this is a bad bet.

The why is obvious. Not having vital infra solely in the hands of a potential enemy is strategy 101.

Economics are but one factor of many.

Re: TSMC to make 4nm chips in Arizona for Apple, AMD, Nvidia

#434

Post by anigbrowl »

menshiki wrote: post #235

Great news for the US. Great news for Apple, AMD, and Nvidia. Not so good news for Taiwan. The fact that the whole tech world is dependent on chips produced in Hsinchu is a huge advantage for the safety of Taiwan. Moving the fabs and talent further away from the island will not benefit the people of Taiwan at all. TSMC with its global influence has been a huge factor for guaranteeing safety of the island and peace in…

Fair point, but the rest of the world will still be customers for chips made in Taiwan, and US defense promises to Taiwan are likely worth more if the economic flows are not just unidirectional.

Re: TSMC to make 4nm chips in Arizona for Apple, AMD, Nvidia

#436

Post by solidsnack9000 »

chaosbolt wrote: post #315
menshiki wrote: post #235

Great news for the US. Great news for Apple, AMD, and Nvidia. Not so good news for Taiwan. The fact that the whole tech world is dependent on chips produced in Hsinchu is a huge advantage for the safety of Taiwan. Moving the fabs and talent further away from the island will not benefit the people of Taiwan at all. TSMC with its global influence has been a huge factor for guaranteeing safety of the island and peace in…

Chip manufacturing is both the reason everyone is protecting them and also why China wants them so bad.

The controversy over Taiwan goes back to well before chip manufacturing was a thing in either country :/

Re: TSMC to make 4nm chips in Arizona for Apple, AMD, Nvidia

#437

Post by ahkurtz »

deltaseventhree wrote: post #353
coredog64 wrote: post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The US has more expensive workers who are overall worse at the job and don't have the expertise to be compete with the people in Taiwan. GMAFB. Intel has several of their fabs in the Phoenix metro area, they’re another 3-5 major players in the area, and there’s a talent pipeline from the local University into these companies. Intel’s problems aren’t an inability to fab, it’s an inability to translate their design l…

It's universally well known that Asian workers work harder and can be paid less. It's not just about intels capabilities. It's about economic wage standards. The cost is just too high in the US. That being said tsmc workers in Taiwan are by far more capable then Intel this is proven by the 3nm process of which Intel is completely incapable of achieving.

You have posted many times in the thread saying the same thing, but slightly moderated because you got flagged.

You said elsewhere "things change" regarding labor force quality. They do. Asian labor across the board, but especially in China, has been rapidly increasing in cost while for example USA labor is stagnant in overall cost. Apple is medium-term going to be priced out of China just by labor costs. It is actually smart in a real-politik sense (and a business sense you deny) for labor sourcing to start looking a lot more broadly at different countries on a cost basis. USA is rich in some measures, but in terms of purchasing power and compensation of much of working class, it no longer is.

As for the quality of USA workers you've commented on a lot, I'll give you there is a serious decline in education. Saying they are slow or lazy shows you don't know anything about USA. The vast majority of the country is working itself to death and the life expectancy is cratering. As sad and reprehensible as it is, from the kind of logic you're using, a desperate and broken workforce is a GREAT business opportunity.

There is something beyond "American Exceptionalism" and "Asian Exceptionalism" and I think you really need to find it.

Re: TSMC to make 4nm chips in Arizona for Apple, AMD, Nvidia

#438

Post by 988747 »

joshjje wrote: post #201
988747 wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They love wars against small third world countries that are easy to win. War with China is probably the only one that US can actually lose.

Not in this lifetime. Unless you are talking about occupying China / storming their territory, that would not go well. But defeating China at sea and in the air and in other countries? They'd have no chance.

Some US generals disagree with you, especially when it comes to fight about Taiwan: https://americanmilitarynews.com/2021/03/us-will-lose-fast-i...

Re: TSMC to make 4nm chips in Arizona for Apple, AMD, Nvidia

#440

Post by enticeing »

MikePlacid wrote: post #356
philliphaydon wrote: post #331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Taiwan and China being one nation is the policy of the governments of both China and Taiwan. No one in Taiwan and not even the current government consider China/Taiwan together. When KMT fled and created the constitution they claim China. Taiwan is now stuck in limbo because the people just want to live their lives in peace and already consider themselves Taiwanese and independent. But if they change the constituti…

The pro-independence party just suffered a major loss in local elections. The prime-minister who invited Nancy Pelosi for a provocative visit had to resign. Looks like Taiwanese people are not very enthusiastic about becoming a new Ukraine.

For clarification: It was the President of Taiwan Tsai Ing-wen(as far as I can tell) who invited Nancy Pelosi for a visit. She (the President of Taiwan) did resign as head of her party, but not as president.
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