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Spotify CEO renews attack on Apple after Musk's salvo

reuters.com

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Re: Spotify CEO renews attack on Apple after Musk's salvo

#831

Post by quitit »

bayindirh wrote: post #427
donmcronald wrote: post #5

I want the option to control my devices. I don’t understand the arguments that claim Apple needs to rule the device with an iron fist. What problems does it cause to make the locked down experience the default with the option for me to disable that and take control of the device after I buy it? I want to own my stuff. I want to repair it and I want complete control over it. I think that in 10 years we’ll all have car…

I understand where you are coming from, and support you on that. On the other hand, I'm pretty happy with the default state of an iPhone. It just manages itself, and all that hard problems (backups, updates, ease of use, experience homogenity, etc.) are solved. I manage more than enough servers at work, and I don't want to manage another server in my pocket, do nitty-gritty settings, allow selected apps background ac…

Fundamentally the argument for “i want to fully control my device” is flawed (actually it’s naive). We do not fully control our devices and haven’t for quite a long time. Especially so for devices that interact with other devices, or rely on integrations that lapse over time (eg 2G networks.)

This type of person is just drawing a line in the sand then falsely labelling it as “full control”, then adding on the rather dangerous commandment: “…and everyone must have it this way because ‘slippery slope and apologists’”

The fact is choice exists and consumer purchasing behaviours are also a demonstration of choice. The successful penetration of these smartphone/ similar devices relies on having different levels of control hard baked into the system - otherwise we are fracturing the ability to have something like the smartphone as a universal minimum.

How many of you folks out there have parents that don’t really use their computer but carry their smartphone everywhere? That’s something to think about.

Re: Spotify CEO renews attack on Apple after Musk's salvo

#832

Post by aussieshibe »

Ntrails wrote: post #751
aussieshibe wrote: post #479

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would giving people the ability to opt out of Apple's ultra-managed experience and take more control over their device harm your ability to continue to enjoy those benefits? I heard an argument like this a lot at the start of discussions about whether we should be able to choose to WFH in the longer term. "I don't want to WFH because..." Ok, sure, but nobody is trying to force you to. It might just be me, and I'll de…

> "I don't want to WFH because..." Ok, sure, but nobody is trying to force you to. The correct phrasing is probably "I would rather not work with a mix of remote co-workers" . Which is very different, though I'd argue still a perfectly reasonable preference!

Sure, and I suspect in the case of WFH that is what some of those people really meant.

I'm not sure I'd agree on the reasonableness point.

It's definitely a reasonable preference to have (although this is true of all preferences). To me, the reasonableness ends at trying to make anyone else satisfy that preference.

Re: Spotify CEO renews attack on Apple after Musk's salvo

#833

Post by sylens »

smachiz wrote: post #733
sylens wrote: post #731

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't want to manage my iPhone like I do a Linux server. But I would like the ability to sign up for Netflix or other streaming services when I first launch the app. Or, failing that, I'd like a message on that app telling me where I have to go to sign-up. I'd like to be able to buy Kindle books directly on my phone and start reading them. I'd like to use a different web browser engine at times. All of those things…

Interesting that you mention the kindle - wouldn't it also be nice to be able to buy Apple Books on your Kindle hardware? You also can't do that. You can root some Kindles and install other software, but is more or less like jailbreaking an iPhone. The issue I have with people going after Apple is that _everyone_ does this more or less. Broadly, I have the fewest complaints about the restrictions in Apple's ecosystem…

The Kindle is not sold or marketed as a general purpose computing device with a robust third party app marketplace. That's the key difference here.

Re: Spotify CEO renews attack on Apple after Musk's salvo

#834

Post by smachiz »

sylens wrote: post #833
smachiz wrote: post #733

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting that you mention the kindle - wouldn't it also be nice to be able to buy Apple Books on your Kindle hardware? You also can't do that. You can root some Kindles and install other software, but is more or less like jailbreaking an iPhone. The issue I have with people going after Apple is that _everyone_ does this more or less. Broadly, I have the fewest complaints about the restrictions in Apple's ecosystem…

The Kindle is not sold or marketed as a general purpose computing device with a robust third party app marketplace. That's the key difference here.

It does have a robust 3rd party app marketplace... with fees.

Amazon could sell books if they wanted to, they would just have to pay Apple.

Re: Spotify CEO renews attack on Apple after Musk's salvo

#835

Post by yobbo »

dalbasal wrote: post #706
yobbo wrote: post #690

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not technically a monopoly, but in so far as it might become one, it is someone else's responsibility to tweet and complain about it. And there is a difference in scale between Apple's control and everyone else's.

>> It's not technically a monopoly What is the technicality? It's certainly a monopoly in layman's terms. Is the technicality monopsony? IE, the fact that Spotify have more power over artists than consumers? Is it the fact that there are other streaming services in existence, and spotify has I feel like people can specify "textbook-monopoly," if they need to use a hyper-strict definition of one kind or another. For r…

There are many alternatives to Spotify.

Re: Spotify CEO renews attack on Apple after Musk's salvo

#836

Post by scarface74 »

piva00 wrote: post #830
scarface74 wrote: post #826

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No I wouldn’t. But software has a zero marginal cost and even server costs are minuscule on a per user basis. 80% of all Apple revenue from the App Store comes from pay to win games (came out in the Epic trial)

What does it matter if software has marginal costs or not? The principle is the same, it's a product being sold by a 3rd party which Apple has no involvement at all in its production costs being distributed by the App Store which Apple takes a fee of 30% off. The costs of software services are part of the cost of a subscription, as the cost of production of something Amazon is selling is part of its cost. Streaming s…

Why is Netflix even relevant to the discussion? Netflix hasn’t allowed in app subscription prices for years

Re: Spotify CEO renews attack on Apple after Musk's salvo

#837

Post by pandaman »

tablespoon wrote: post #817
GeekyBear wrote: post #752

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This has never happened on Android. >When Fortnite launched on mobile in 2018, Epic Games very notably sidestepped the Google Play Store and pushed users to download the title directly from their website, an effort made to avoid the substantial revenue cuts that Google takes from in-app purchases of Play Store downloads. At the time, the move was understandable for Epic, which was sitting on the hottest free-to-pla…

>> A sibling argument is saying that if side-loading were opt in, major apps would move to require it from users. >> This has never happened on Android. > When Fortnite launched on mobile in 2018, Epic Games very notably sidestepped the Google Play Store and pushed users to download the title directly from their website... Though that's the exception that proves the rule. Besides Fortnite, who else has pushed users i…

>Besides Fortnite, who else has pushed users into side-loading?

Amazon did the same with its app store (one they tried to push when they first released their tablet)

Re: Spotify CEO renews attack on Apple after Musk's salvo

#838

Post by shuckles »

dzikimarian wrote: post #822
shuckles wrote: post #681

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is totally false. When I used Android, finding a phone maker and carrier who sold “pure” or “stock” Android without pre-installed garbage was the first step to buying a phone!

>without pre-installed garbage Like Apple Music? Each phone vendor including Apple does this to some extent. On Android you at least have some options (I had a few of them all were very close to stock), and usually you can disable these apps if there are any.

Comparing the system Music app which has existed since iOS 1.0 with an optional music streaming service that can be disabled as “equivalently bad” as carrier bloatware pretty much undermines your point entirely.

Re: Spotify CEO renews attack on Apple after Musk's salvo

#839

Post by dlubarov »

cmelbye wrote: post #823
fleddr wrote: post #772

People are digressing into all kinds of matters unrelated to the article and issue. The heart of the matter is not control of the device, it's about the Apple tax, and how it makes no sense in particular scenarios, such as subscriptions. Sure enough, the app store services are worth something . Real labor, infra and costs go into it. Although Apple could very well subsidize it, it's not 100% unfair to ask for some ki…

The fee to set up a developer account is $99/year. The biggest apps on the store and the smallest pay the same fee. A fixed fee helps to equalize the barrier to entry, and everyone likes that. On the other hand, App Store's cost structure is not fixed. Spotify costs Apple vastly more than an app with 1000 installs. This needs to be accounted for. > Nothing about the streaming or value delivered is in any way related…

> App Store's cost structure is not fixed

Looks like Apple's taxes generate around $85b/year. I'm not sure what it costs them to develop the App Store software and host some downloads, but surely it couldn't be even 1% of that?

Re: Spotify CEO renews attack on Apple after Musk's salvo

#840

Post by squeaky-clean »

carl_dr wrote: post #603
squeaky-clean wrote: post #518

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I consider it part of Apple's competitive advantage. I bought an iPhone because I want it to just work and for my apps to behave well. I can do the tinkering on my laptop, I don't want every computing device I own to be hackable. Heck, if I could have a phone with iOS 1 (no third party apps) and the camera and screen of the latest iPhone, I would buy that.

> Heck, if I could have a phone with iOS 1 (no third party apps) and the camera and screen of the latest iPhone, I would buy that. Well, you can - just don't install any 3rd party apps?

And people who want a hackable iPhone can jailbreak it or whip out the microscopic soldering iron. I basically don't install 3rd party apps but I want it enforced at the OS level. If even 5% of iPhone users were unable to install apps companies would think twice about ruining their website in order to force their mobile app on users.
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