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Memory Safe Languages in Android 13

security.googleblog.com

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Re: Memory Safe Languages in Android 13

#51

Post by estebank »

warkdarrior wrote: post #36
Manishearth wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always say that if the strongest complaint people have about your language is syntax; you've already succeeded.

You have an extra semicolon in your comment.

It's two statements, comments start with //

:o)

Re: Memory Safe Languages in Android 13

#53

Post by wiseowise »

synergy20 wrote: post #16
wiseowise wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually now is the time to learn C++. Amount of leverage and money C++ developers will be able to utilize is enormous, given how much critical code is written in it.

I'm learning modern c++ these days, but I don't follow your 'money' logic here...

Cool kids and students move to Rust, C++ doesn’t have influx of new developers hence more demand for existing C++ developers.

Re: Memory Safe Languages in Android 13

#54

Post by masklinn »

lspears wrote: post #34

Why no Go?

Does not play well with anything else, and the primary langage is Java/Kotlin, even making two “managed” languages interact properly is difficult when both have well behaved ffi.

It would require rearchitecting everything to work with separate processes and IPC, and that’s got some overhead(s).

It also has memory safety issues around concurrency, and its limited allowance for abstractions makes papering over those complicated.

Re: Memory Safe Languages in Android 13

#55

Post by wiseowise »

littlestymaar wrote: post #13
wiseowise wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually now is the time to learn C++. Amount of leverage and money C++ developers will be able to utilize is enormous, given how much critical code is written in it.

I don't think it's worth the pain to learn C++ today. Of course, expert or just senior C++ developers have a bright future ahead (even though their domain will slowly becomes more niche every year), but for someone starting their career now, I doubt they'll reach the expert level before it has lost most of its relevance.

Time will tell.

Re: Memory Safe Languages in Android 13

#56

Post by pclmulqdq »

insanitybit wrote: post #23
cyber_kinetist wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rust (despite the common understanding) is not a memory-safe language in its entirety. It is a language designed to have a strict division of safe/unsafe which makes it easier for developers to compartmentalize code to achieve memory-safety.

No language in use meets your definition of memory safe.

Ada seems to fit.

Re: Memory Safe Languages in Android 13

#57

Post by insanitybit »

goodpoint wrote: post #20

I'll be downvoted for pointing out that comparing C++ with Rust without further context can be made into a false dichotomy. Some people are posting the article around the Internet as evidence that Rust solved security. Instead, there are many other memory safe languages around and there has been thousands in the past. Additionally, many security issues are not due to memory safety. Please keep that in mind when makin…

You're being downvoted because your points are directly addressed and refuted with evidence in the article. They explicitly address different vulnerability classes.

Re: Memory Safe Languages in Android 13

#58

Post by estebank »

Manishearth wrote: post #35
goodpoint wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not only that, they are also comparing new code with pretty old code.

They're also explicitly tracking new code by language, and talking about memory safety vulnerabilities per year, and they also link to [1] which talks about how most memory safety bugs they get are in new code. Most of the graphs here are about new code. [1]: https://security.googleblog.com/2021/04/rust-in-android-plat...

It's also useful to look at the "rate of bugs per line of new code" because even stablished, long stable projects have code churn. Rare is the project that is unchancged, frozen in bakelite, and any mild refactor can introduce regressions or affect relied upon implicit invariants.

Re: Memory Safe Languages in Android 13

#59

Post by modshatereality »

is this a good way to spend developer time? How about *removing* all of the middle-man bloatware instead of wasting how many dev-years rewriting it (edit: and effectively making it even LESS maintainable now that it's in some new niche language with a vastly smaller dev pool). just give me the direct linux experience we all deserve instead of this garbo spamflinger middlewear that google leverages to keep you dependent on their build methodology and discourage cooperation with other competitive linux-based system.

edit2: wow mods hard at work, already removed one dissenting post.

Re: Memory Safe Languages in Android 13

#60

Post by burntsushi »

goodpoint wrote: post #20

I'll be downvoted for pointing out that comparing C++ with Rust without further context can be made into a false dichotomy. Some people are posting the article around the Internet as evidence that Rust solved security. Instead, there are many other memory safe languages around and there has been thousands in the past. Additionally, many security issues are not due to memory safety. Please keep that in mind when makin…

Can you link to anyone with any modicum of credibility declaring that this article is evidence that "Rust solved security"? I'll be the first to point out that memory safety related vulnerabilities are merely a subset (albeit a big one) of all possible vulnerabilities.
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