LOL I read this title as a "Showerthoughts", just stating a funny fact about "normal" chess.
Human Chess is a chess variant where playing the top engine move is forbidden
161–170 of 243 posts
Re: Human Chess is a chess variant where playing the top engine move is forbidden
#162I immediately thought of Marostica, but I guess this is easier than travelling to northern Italy
Re: Human Chess is a chess variant where playing the top engine move is forbidden
#163I dont follow the chess world that closely, but could someone explain why chess960 isn't more popular? Its been around for awhile and solves the problem of people memorizing opening lines, and boring chess games where the first n moves are predetermined.
Re: Human Chess is a chess variant where playing the top engine move is forbidden
#164I dont follow the chess world that closely, but could someone explain why chess960 isn't more popular? Its been around for awhile and solves the problem of people memorizing opening lines, and boring chess games where the first n moves are predetermined.
It may solve opening lines, but it doesn't really solve the general concept of mass memorization. After a few moves more than 960 possible configurations of chess exist from a normal board anyway.
And you can say, "oh well but the boards are roughly the same" and that's sort of true, but it doesn't really solve the problem of the people memorizing the tree. It just changes the shape of the tree. It goes from looking like a pine to a maple.
Re: Human Chess is a chess variant where playing the top engine move is forbidden
#165It's a cool concept but the first naive thought that comes to mind for me is that white could just easily dominate by taking advantage of the fact that taking a queen is almost always the top engine move. So just by maintaining relative king safety on white's side, you just open your queen early and make sure that every move there onwards hangs your queen in some fashion. It's very easy to hang a queen. You just have…
There will be opening theory soon, and it will be essential in many cases. For instance after 1.e3 e6 2.Qh5, White threatens Qxf7+ which would force black to play the top engine move. Then 2...g6 3.Qxg6 is one idea -- but there are two recaptures, fxg6 and hxg6, and only one of them can be the top engine move (hxg6, I'm guessing). So 3...fxg6 probably refutes this idea. But are you sure enough as white to try to clai…
1.e3 e6 2.Qh5 g6 3.Qxh7 Qh4 4. Qxf7+ Kd8 5. Qe8++
Re: Human Chess is a chess variant where playing the top engine move is forbidden
#166Checkmate is forbidden because it's what the engine suggests. Check with a single escape is suddenly the goal. But if you're in check, do the rules say you need to try to escape it? Or can you take the opportunity to capture the queen, thumbing your nose at the false threat?
You can actually checkmate if there are two ways to do it and one is uglier.
Re: Human Chess is a chess variant where playing the top engine move is forbidden
#167Earlier quoted context omitted.
There will be opening theory soon, and it will be essential in many cases. For instance after 1.e3 e6 2.Qh5, White threatens Qxf7+ which would force black to play the top engine move. Then 2...g6 3.Qxg6 is one idea -- but there are two recaptures, fxg6 and hxg6, and only one of them can be the top engine move (hxg6, I'm guessing). So 3...fxg6 probably refutes this idea. But are you sure enough as white to try to clai…
1.e3 e6 2.Qh5 g6 3.Qxh7 Qh4 4. Qxf7+ Kd8 5. Qe8++
Sigh, tried to do blindfold again, sorry.
Re: Human Chess is a chess variant where playing the top engine move is forbidden
#168Checkmate is forbidden because it's what the engine suggests. Check with a single escape is suddenly the goal. But if you're in check, do the rules say you need to try to escape it? Or can you take the opportunity to capture the queen, thumbing your nose at the false threat?
The goal of the game is to capture the opposing player's King. Technically, you don't have to escape a check. But the other player can take your King and you'd lose. That's why checkmate is seen as a win, because on the player's next turn he can take the opponent's King and there's nothing the opponent can do about it.
In rapid chess, if you overlook check or put your own King in check, your opponent can claim the win.
Now, what happens in Human Chess, I don't know. Because I would assume that the best move would be to capture the King and win the game. Assuming that you can't capture the King because it's the recommended move, this does seem like something you could exploit to some degree.
Re: Human Chess is a chess variant where playing the top engine move is forbidden
#169Now: Human Chess: a variant where you can't play what AI would play. Next: AI that can play Human Chess. After: Human^2 Chess: you can't play what the AI above would play. etc I wonder if this creates distinctly new games at each level, or if it's just nonsense one level down.
Wouldn't human^2 chess be similar to regular chess? The human-chess AI is guaranteed never to play the regular-chess optimal move, so you can get a checkmate by always playing the optimal move (according to the engine). And unlike human chess, there's nothing preventing you from checkmating your opponent.
(I believe a chess engine could play human^2 chess exactly like it plays regular chess. A human couldn't because a human doesn't know what moves the chess engine would pick.)
Re: Human Chess is a chess variant where playing the top engine move is forbidden
#170Next up: Basilisk Chess Two players compete to win a chess game, where you only win if you work tirelessly to play perfect chess moves on every turn (as determined by benevolent artificial superintelligence). The loser is tortured in a virtual reality simulation.
What? No, Basilisk Chess is where two players compete to make the chess move that optimizes some future AI's utility function. If you lose you get tortured forever.