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Sperm counts worldwide are plummeting faster than we thought

nationalgeographic.com

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Re: Sperm counts worldwide are plummeting faster than we thought

#191
post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who cares about hiding trade secrets if those trade secrets are "just a pinch of mercury" or some other nefarious chemical.

Just thinking ahead here for some possible pitfalls why companies would be against it.

Unfortunately I just see anything that they don’t want to disclose (because it’s harmful) to become a trade secret

Re: Sperm counts worldwide are plummeting faster than we thought

#192
post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who cares about hiding trade secrets if those trade secrets are "just a pinch of mercury" or some other nefarious chemical.

Just thinking ahead here for some possible pitfalls why companies would be against it.

They are going to be against it anyway.

Re: Sperm counts worldwide are plummeting faster than we thought

#193

> Swan also recommends reducing exposure to endocrine-disrupting chemicals by being a savvy consumer Most hygiene products get away with listing diethyl phthalate as 'Parfum'. What we need is not savvy consumers what we need is regulators to get serious.

I agree with you, but I don't know how helpful this will end up being. Endocrine disruptors are airborne and globally ubiquitous in the form of micro-plastics. All drinking water in the world is contaminated with it. [1] I'm really not meaning to be dramatic on this, but we've completely missed the boat on this one while we were arguing about climate change, and it's much too late to do anything about it now.[2] I'll…

I'll let the chemistry people comment on this one but phtalates are used as a 'plasticizer' they are not plastic itself as in a micro-plastic bead

I am not sure how much of these plasticizers survives on the microplastic that you refer to. in our water supply or in airborne polyester fibers? Those are major sources of microplastic contamination but I am not sure they are major sources of _plasticizer_ contamination.

In this case there is mounting evidence against phthalates and bisphenols as endocrine disruptors. This is the stuff getting into your blood stream through ingestion or skin absorption mostly from plastic containers, hygiene products, etc.

This is one of the problems, we are missing studies that can demonstrate sources and source contribution to this problem.

Re: Sperm counts worldwide are plummeting faster than we thought

#194
post #156

My wife and I have a beautiful daughter about to turn 2. But she wouldn't have existed if it weren't for IVF (in vitro fertilization). Had to stab her stomach with needles for a while to make hormones to mass produce eggs and then they took my sperm to put into her eggs and see which ones took. Five viable pairings happened. Three were put into her and out came the one kid. Other two are in cryo for future use, and h…

As an addendum, for us IUI (intrauterine insemination) was a complete waste of money. My sperm counts were largely fine and it might make sense if you believe it’s your primary issue - for unexplained infertility I don’t believe it makes sense.

Re: Sperm counts worldwide are plummeting faster than we thought

#195
post #68

Hopefully they will never discover that this is due to excessive wanking.

Not sure if you're joking, but that's something they control for (when you last ejaculated) when measuring sperm counts

I was joking. Round 1 has a different consistency than round 5. Perhaps the test subjects aren't entirely honest...

Re: Sperm counts worldwide are plummeting faster than we thought

#196
post #156

My wife and I have a beautiful daughter about to turn 2. But she wouldn't have existed if it weren't for IVF (in vitro fertilization). Had to stab her stomach with needles for a while to make hormones to mass produce eggs and then they took my sperm to put into her eggs and see which ones took. Five viable pairings happened. Three were put into her and out came the one kid. Other two are in cryo for future use, and h…

Accept for most in the world IVF is a years salary.

Re: Sperm counts worldwide are plummeting faster than we thought

#197
post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get reliably downvoted for suggesting this, but we need vastly better labelling across the board. We give companies a lot of leeway when it comes to selling things to put in and on our bodies without us, owners of said bodies, having any way of finding out what the hell is in their products, or where they came from, or how they were processed. It absolutely baffles me how everyone doesn't want considerably more inf…

I would be massively in favour of adding a QR Code that details as much as possible (without giving away trade secrets if that is possible) where and how something is sourced and then adding how it was processed. Much like you get a track and trace with a package.

EWG has something that’s a lot better than nothing: https://www.ewg.org/skindeep/

They also have an app that can scan UPC codes.

Re: Sperm counts worldwide are plummeting faster than we thought

#198

It is interesting, I have a friend group that consists of about 5 married couples all of whom have been having issues conceiving and have been trying for a while now, but are still having issues. Curiously enough my wife and I just had our 4th and every time we've conceived within two months (even when I was hoping it would take a little longer). From what I hear our friends story is not unusual and many in our age b…

I'm a Catholic and fairly traditionally minded and am surprised by what you're saying since at my church, couples in this age range are on their fourth or fifth kid by the time they're 30. Even amongst the newest married couples, most are expecting within the first year. I understand we have different beliefs and such but since we're all in the same environment, how do we explain the simultaneous existence of the see…

> I understand we have different beliefs and such but since we're all in the same environment,

Interesting you mention that the group I am referring to and myself are all members of religion generally associated with large families as well.

I should also clarify all of them have at least 2 kids at this point. Which is another interesting data point of many of them didn't have difficulty with their first couple of kids but now are struggling.

Re: Sperm counts worldwide are plummeting faster than we thought

#199

The thesis of the book 'Countdown' is that this is largely due to widespread plastic and other endocrine disrupting chemicals. I believe this is one of the most important risks to humanity, after climate change, and global war. So far, I've taken some lifestyle changes to combat this: 1) Threw out all of my teflon cooking pans 2) Refuse to consume food in heated plastics 3) Throw out teabags (they have plastics). Use…

> I strongly suspect BPA-free plastics have similar endocrine effects

Based on what? BPA is the monomer which makes up polycarbonate plastic, and it's a simple molecule which has been known to be an estrogen analogue for nearly 100 years. Other kinds of plastics besides polycarbonate are made from much different kinds of monomers which have no structural similarity to BPA, so why should we assume that the risk carries over? The mechanism that makes BPA dangerous has nothing to do with the fact that it can be turned into a plastic.

Re: Sperm counts worldwide are plummeting faster than we thought

#200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That article is not saying sperm counts are not dropping, but arguing that that is not linked with dropping fertility (and that the original study is racist for only including western countries or something).

To be fair I think it is kinda racist to categorize sperm as either "Western" sperm vs "other" sperm. They couldn't do the bare fucking minimum and at least separate by continent or wealth? Health?

Maybe it's not the bare minimum? Maybe they had limited funding, largely access only to "Western sperm" (which actually is a reasonable category I would argue because we share a lifestyle to a greater or lesser degree), maybe they had sparse data that covered simply "not the West".
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