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Human Chess is a chess variant where playing the top engine move is forbidden

humanchess.abcd.party

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Re: Human Chess is a chess variant where playing the top engine move is forbidden

#151

Post by mtlmtlmtlmtl »

BurningFrog wrote: post #137
mtlmtlmtlmtl wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think in the context of top level chess, eliminating opening prep is the wrong way to go. And I don't like 960 either for that reason. I think the problem with opening prep today is that there are so many drawish openings and forced draws, constructed repetitions etc. In other words it's just too easy for top players to make a low effort draw. To make top level chess more interesting I have a handful of ideas that…

About point 1, soccer/football did that a few decades ago, it was successful and is now uncontroversial: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_points_for_a_win

Yeah, there are chess tournaments that do this now, like Norway Chess. But because a single tournament can't change the FIDE rating system, it's sort of a fart in the wind.

Norway chess also has the spectaculary stupid idea that if a game is drawn, the players play an armageddon(white gets more time, black wins with a draw) blitz game, and the winner gets half a point extra, so 1.5 to 1. This just ruins it to me. A draw should still be a draw, sometimes the players were just equal and not all draws are lazy. And this makes drawing more attractive again because if you win the armageddon you still get half a victory worth of points. And decided by a blitz game in a classical tournament.

Re: Human Chess is a chess variant where playing the top engine move is forbidden

#152

Post by bentcorner »

luxuryballs wrote: post #117
mabbo wrote: post #105

I think the 'challenge and win' concept is too strict. Just make the move disallowed. You'll need the computer to be paying attention at all times, but nonetheless it would be more enjoyable to play.

True you could have a ghost piece of the computers move and you just can’t move there.

I'm not a chess player but wouldn't that give too much information away? Not knowing what is the "best" move is part of the game, isn't it?

Re: Human Chess is a chess variant where playing the top engine move is forbidden

#155

Post by ansible »

Rather than play something like this, there are many chess variants that people could try instead. Like Hexagonal Chess [1]. No one has written engines for them or otherwise invested huge amounts of time and effort in research. So you can be reasonably certain that your opponent isn't using an engine to score a cheap win against you.

[1] https://greenchess.net/variants.php?cat=6

Re: Human Chess is a chess variant where playing the top engine move is forbidden

#156

Post by hacym »

klodolph wrote: post #24
thejteam wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Should that always be the case, though? We could try to force a position where 2 separate moves checkmate. Then only 1 (presumably the one that results from capturing the highest valued piece?) would be the engine result.

If you can check your opponent, giving them only one legal move, you win (because it is the top engine move).

This is a good point. If you can check with your queen but hang it, the “best move” would be to take it. Make it so they have to take it, for example in a back rank, and you win.

Re: Human Chess is a chess variant where playing the top engine move is forbidden

#157

Post by hacym »

mabbo wrote: post #105

I think the 'challenge and win' concept is too strict. Just make the move disallowed. You'll need the computer to be paying attention at all times, but nonetheless it would be more enjoyable to play.

The game would never end, then. The win condition is challenging when a move is the best move. It’s similar to games of deception. You WANT the person to think you made the best move without actually making it, because if they challenge and are wrong, you win.

Re: Human Chess is a chess variant where playing the top engine move is forbidden

#158

Post by mrandish »

Obligatory reference post to Fischer Random Chess (aka Chess960). A variant designed to "make gaining an advantage through the memorization of openings impracticable; players instead must rely more on their skill and creativity over the board." A combination of Human Chess and Chess960 might be interesting...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fischer_random_chess#Praising_...

Re: Human Chess is a chess variant where playing the top engine move is forbidden

#159

Post by 323 »

tantalor wrote: post #126

Next up: Basilisk Chess Two players compete to win a chess game, where you only win if you work tirelessly to play perfect chess moves on every turn (as determined by benevolent artificial superintelligence). The loser is tortured in a virtual reality simulation.

But if you are playing Basilisk Chess it means you are aware of the Basilisk.

So both players need to stop playing immediately after the first move and start working towards making strong AI happen, or they will be VR tortured forever.

Re: Human Chess is a chess variant where playing the top engine move is forbidden

#160

Post by klyrs »

Checkmate is forbidden because it's what the engine suggests. Check with a single escape is suddenly the goal.

But if you're in check, do the rules say you need to try to escape it? Or can you take the opportunity to capture the queen, thumbing your nose at the false threat?

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