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Human Chess is a chess variant where playing the top engine move is forbidden

humanchess.abcd.party

141–150 of 243 posts

Re: Human Chess is a chess variant where playing the top engine move is forbidden

#141
post #15

Now: Human Chess: a variant where you can't play what AI would play. Next: AI that can play Human Chess. After: Human^2 Chess: you can't play what the AI above would play. etc I wonder if this creates distinctly new games at each level, or if it's just nonsense one level down.

Each level also has a logarithmically increasing number of "fantasy" meta games stacked on top, don't forget to take those into account: https://alexshroyer.com/posts/2022-04-30-Fantasy-Fantasy-Foo...

Re: Human Chess is a chess variant where playing the top engine move is forbidden

#142
post #15

Now: Human Chess: a variant where you can't play what AI would play. Next: AI that can play Human Chess. After: Human^2 Chess: you can't play what the AI above would play. etc I wonder if this creates distinctly new games at each level, or if it's just nonsense one level down.

I loved the idea, but on further thought, the AI has a huge advantage in knowing what the engine move is, so they can never lose to incorrectly calling the last move and engine move.

Never go in against a Sicillian!

Re: Human Chess is a chess variant where playing the top engine move is forbidden

#144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The title "Human Chess is a chess variant where playing the top engine move is forbidden" kinda suggests that the top move just isn't available to the player. However, the thought you had, and similar ones, are very much the intentional side-effect of the rules. The only way to win the game, as stated, is forcing your opponent to make the top engine move. Or, of course, correctly claim that your opponent made such a…

I'd also be interested in a variant where the engine-recommended move is displayed to the players. It would take out the uncertainty of whether a move is illegal, but would allow for different win conditions (e.g. approach checkmate without ever using an optimal move).

Not wasting time with claims would be another very practical advantage.

A further variant for fairness purposes: let each player bring their preferred chess engine, instead of arguing about the choice of only one; and have each player run both engines for mutual anti-cheating verification. Then either the two engines agree on the best move (likely case if they are both strong) or all moves that either engine considers better than the other engine's best move (at least 2, usually not too many) can be interdicted.

Re: Human Chess is a chess variant where playing the top engine move is forbidden

#145
post #64

It's a cool concept but the first naive thought that comes to mind for me is that white could just easily dominate by taking advantage of the fact that taking a queen is almost always the top engine move. So just by maintaining relative king safety on white's side, you just open your queen early and make sure that every move there onwards hangs your queen in some fashion. It's very easy to hang a queen. You just have…

e4, Qf3, Qxf7 looks menacing

1.e4 may well be the best move, 1.e3 is a lot safer.

Edit: I didn't read the fine print. First moves are exempt.

Re: Human Chess is a chess variant where playing the top engine move is forbidden

#146

It's a cool concept but the first naive thought that comes to mind for me is that white could just easily dominate by taking advantage of the fact that taking a queen is almost always the top engine move. So just by maintaining relative king safety on white's side, you just open your queen early and make sure that every move there onwards hangs your queen in some fashion. It's very easy to hang a queen. You just have…

You could have two engines: a strong engine and a weak engine. If the weak engine suggests a move then it's allowed. But if the strong engines suggests a different move than it's forbidden.

But you'd need to fine-tune the stupidity of the weak engine to have decent but not too good moves: an extra chore that would amply offset any increase of fun.

Re: Human Chess is a chess variant where playing the top engine move is forbidden

#147
post #54
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Forced mates are generally scored with the number of moves to mate, e.g. "M2"

So you can start down a sequence that gives check-mate, but once it is the shortest sequence to check-mate, you have to abandon the check-mate.

So you can never actually play a mate in one.

Re: Human Chess is a chess variant where playing the top engine move is forbidden

#148
This will definitely have unintended consequences - once you know that your opponent cannot make the top move, you would start abusing it. It might be fun though - I am recently playing Fischer's chess on lichess.org and it is crazy - you beat a 2200+ player and lose against 945 the very next game. A lot of fun though.

Re: Human Chess is a chess variant where playing the top engine move is forbidden

#149

Is there a standard evaluation function in chess engines?

I don't think so, but it is deterministic and given equal depth all search-based engines should theoritically pop the same one. The AI-based (е.g. AlphaZero) ones are obviously different.

Re: Human Chess is a chess variant where playing the top engine move is forbidden

#150
I would assume that this is a tongue-in-cheek suggestion; a commentary on the state of chess in 2022. Otherwise it makes zero sense, because what you're doing is using the rules of one game, Real Chess, to determine what moves are allowed in a completely different one, Human Chess, in a way that is very complicated and awkward. How would the top engine move be defined in an endgame where you have few enough pieces to use a table-base? Is any move that leads to a win a top-move? Or just the one that does so the quickest? Madness :)
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