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TSMC to make 4nm chips in Arizona for Apple, AMD, Nvidia

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Re: TSMC to make 4nm chips in Arizona for Apple, AMD, Nvidia

#251

Post by judge2020 »

menshiki wrote: post #235

Great news for the US. Great news for Apple, AMD, and Nvidia. Not so good news for Taiwan. The fact that the whole tech world is dependent on chips produced in Hsinchu is a huge advantage for the safety of Taiwan. Moving the fabs and talent further away from the island will not benefit the people of Taiwan at all. TSMC with its global influence has been a huge factor for guaranteeing safety of the island and peace in…

> The fact that the whole tech world is dependent on chips produced in Hsinchu is a huge advantage for the safety of Taiwan.

But if they're entirely dependent on the US for defense in case of PRC invasion, is that healthy for the country?

Re: TSMC to make 4nm chips in Arizona for Apple, AMD, Nvidia

#252

Post by LegitShady »

judge2020 wrote: post #251
menshiki wrote: post #235

Great news for the US. Great news for Apple, AMD, and Nvidia. Not so good news for Taiwan. The fact that the whole tech world is dependent on chips produced in Hsinchu is a huge advantage for the safety of Taiwan. Moving the fabs and talent further away from the island will not benefit the people of Taiwan at all. TSMC with its global influence has been a huge factor for guaranteeing safety of the island and peace in…

> The fact that the whole tech world is dependent on chips produced in Hsinchu is a huge advantage for the safety of Taiwan. But if they're entirely dependent on the US for defense in case of PRC invasion, is that healthy for the country?

what are the alternatives?

Re: TSMC to make 4nm chips in Arizona for Apple, AMD, Nvidia

#253

Post by nonethewiser »

LegitShady wrote: post #252
judge2020 wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The fact that the whole tech world is dependent on chips produced in Hsinchu is a huge advantage for the safety of Taiwan. But if they're entirely dependent on the US for defense in case of PRC invasion, is that healthy for the country?

what are the alternatives?

Move every critical industry to Taiwan.

Re: TSMC to make 4nm chips in Arizona for Apple, AMD, Nvidia

#254

Post by nonethewiser »

jimbob45 wrote: post #246
menshiki wrote: post #235

Great news for the US. Great news for Apple, AMD, and Nvidia. Not so good news for Taiwan. The fact that the whole tech world is dependent on chips produced in Hsinchu is a huge advantage for the safety of Taiwan. Moving the fabs and talent further away from the island will not benefit the people of Taiwan at all. TSMC with its global influence has been a huge factor for guaranteeing safety of the island and peace in…

Does China still want Taiwan if it's no longer technologically relevant? My understanding is that China is making similar strides in its own chip industry to the point where TSMC won't be as nearly as useful to them in 10 years as it is now.

Yes.

Re: TSMC to make 4nm chips in Arizona for Apple, AMD, Nvidia

#255

Post by lbriner »

float4 wrote: post #122
spaniard89277 wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, but local fabs in Europe are far, far away from Intel, TSMC and Samsung. Infineon, NXP and STM are wayy behind.

Why do we even want cutting edge fabs in Europe? We have no companies that design cutting edge logic chips here. Literally none. Why invest 20 billion dollars (or what is the price of a cutting edge fab these days?) to create supply without demand? Or do we seriously expect that US companies will generate significant demand even though TSMC and Samsung are already building heavily subsidized fabs in the US ?

I guess it depends what fabs you build but we have seen very large numbers of manufacturers desperate for components. A fab anywhere in Europe could easily supply any factories in Europe so there should be demand.

On the other hand, if people are trying to build the cutting-edge, there might not be as much local demand since it is probably only needed for the latest IT equipment, most of which is built in the Far East.

Re: TSMC to make 4nm chips in Arizona for Apple, AMD, Nvidia

#256

Post by maxfurman »

marcosdumay wrote: post #213
huijzer wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I doubt that. I was not talking about AWS. The price I mentioned is from Hetzner (by heart though, so I might be a bit off) which is pretty cheap. I have also tested multiple budget VPS providers and they all don’t dare to go below aforementioned price even though there is a lot of competition in the VPS market. Sometimes the more budget providers provide more vCPUs but in my tests those usually turn out to be extrem…

Well, it's 2GB of RAM, and 23GB of disk. It's quite low, but the real costs are on datacenter space and connectivity anyway, I have no idea what their cost structure looks like. I would expect any real user to switch into renting servers as soon as small VPSs aren't enough. (But yes, the fact that there is a market of large VPSs tells people don't to that. I don't think I will ever understand this, as I don't underst…

Most buyers are simply not savvy enough to pick the most effective hosting. I worked for a small e-commerce operation years ago, they had essentially no technical expertise in-house, but they knew their products and their market. Odds are very low that their VPS arrangement was optimal but how would they know? As long as the site stayed up and the orders came in.

Re: TSMC to make 4nm chips in Arizona for Apple, AMD, Nvidia

#257

Post by bfgoodrich »

phpisthebest wrote: post #87
Aromasin wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Already being planned by Intel. They're building a new leading edge fab in Magdeburg, Germany [1]. This is backed by the new European Chips Act [2]. Wheels have started turning very quickly with regards to home-grown semiconductors in 2022. [1] https://www.intel.co.uk/content/www/uk/en/newsroom/news/eu-n... [2] https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/ip_22_...

I always find it odd that companies always want to be build things outside of their home state TSMC -> US Intel -> EU Toyota -> US Honda -> US Ford -> MX / Canada GM -> MX / Canada

These are all international companies. Ford of Canada builds in Canada. GM of Canada builds in Canada. Honda US builds in the US.

It's incredibly provincial to think of multinational companies so simply.

Re: TSMC to make 4nm chips in Arizona for Apple, AMD, Nvidia

#259

Post by macspoofing »

totalZero wrote: post #43
etaioinshrdlu wrote: post #12

Does the CHIPS act have anything to do with making this happen? It's funny to think that the supply chain gurus at Apple & NVIDIA may be doing the work of geopolitics in the service of just defending their bottom line from disruption.

Apple spent something like a half-trillion on share buybacks. They could have averted this crisis a decade ago by thinking strategically. They didn't. Why give them credit where little or no credit is due?

>Apple spent something like a half-trillion on share buybacks. They could have averted this crisis a decade ago by thinking strategically.

I don't understand the fixation on this. Share buybacks strengthen the stock price of the company, which the company can leverage in the future to raise more capital if needed (by re-releasing new shares to the market). From that perspective, they are better than dividends.

Besides, right now, Apple isn't strapped for cash as they have around ~50 billion on-hand and could raise more if they wanted to. So Apple can still invest more in fab processes if that's what they want.

Re: TSMC to make 4nm chips in Arizona for Apple, AMD, Nvidia

#260

Post by naruvimama »

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #199
nexus_dave wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reason is simple. Europeans don't want to work in chip factories.

Do you have any sources for your claims or are you making stuff up? Many, many Europeans do work in factories. Just ask the Germans. What's wrong with working in chip factories anyway? They produce some of the highest margin products in the world and since they are highly automated, working in a chip factory requires certain knowledge and education on physics, quality assurance, automation, material science, and cert…

I have personal experience having been in a low end research fab. The bunny suits and the protocols are elaborate. It was only for few hours and it was quite uncomfortable, hard to see or get a sense of things around you.

Regular users would generally stay for several hours to make it worth it. No break, water, toilet or food, probably come in with an empty bladder and empty stomach and stay the whole day.

From what I have read, it requires specialised training and intermediate if not advanced level skills and relatively high level of education. You work on the same machines for years and they pay is not necessarily that high compared to the trouble that you put in.

In fact, even in Taiwan the challenge is that people often switch to chip design or software instead. This definitely gets harder as people age.

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