Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Spotify CEO renews attack on Apple after Musk's salvo

reuters.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

721–730 of 903 posts

Re: Spotify CEO renews attack on Apple after Musk's salvo

#721

Post by scarface74 »

piva00 wrote: post #646
Dah00n wrote: post #623

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whataboutism doesn't solve anything. Two wrongs doesn't make a right. Etc.

Not only whataboutism but also broken analogies. I can't think of a proper analogy to the market power that Apple holds by having the whole platform coupled with devices that people don't have that many other choices (Android vs iOS, that's basically it). I can always try to twist the analogy to bring it closer to the actual reality of the issue at hand but it's always an uphill battle to dismember it and re-create t…

> can't think of a proper analogy to the market power that Apple holds by having the whole platform coupled with devices that people don't have that many other choices

There are three console makers as opposed to two major phone manufacturers. How is that different?

Re: Spotify CEO renews attack on Apple after Musk's salvo

#722

Post by roody15 »

marricks wrote: post #203
satvikpendem wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Your data is (mostly) safe from advertisers because that's not their business. I beg to differ. Apple is becoming an ad company despite privacy claims https://proton.me/blog/apple-ad-company https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33736259

Both your links go to the same Proton article and the heart of it seems to be this: > Apple monitors your every move in the App Store and its News and Stocks apps and then uses that data to sell ads targeting you in those same apps. To meet its growth forecasts, experts expect Apple to start selling ads in its Maps, Podcast, and Books apps, meaning it could replicate this model across more of its services. Much more…

Interesting.. I just saw an add in my Apple Maps yesterday and I was really confused at first. Had no idea they are considering moving in this direction and must already be testing it.

On a different note I attended an apple event for IT Government and Education in Chicago. Eye opening.. Apple's "privacy" stance is all just a horse and pony show for marketing. Unbelievable how open they were about tracking everything at the event.

Re: Spotify CEO renews attack on Apple after Musk's salvo

#723

Post by scarface74 »

madeofpalk wrote: post #588
scarface74 wrote: post #540

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He can. Users can go to Spotify.com in any browser and they can even make it easy by supporting Apple Pay. Apple Pay charges standard credit card processing fees of around 2% as opposed to in all purchases.

Until very recently, when courts forced Apple to allow it, Apple prevent developers from event mentioning that a website exists where there's a cheaper option to sign up. Apple has rules, and that's "fine". But they also have rules about the rules that disallow developers from explaining the rules to users. That doesn't sit right with me.

Spotify stopped allowing in app purchases years ago before any Court said anything.

Re: Spotify CEO renews attack on Apple after Musk's salvo

#724

Post by coldpie »

olliecornelia wrote: post #715
endisneigh wrote: post #86

Stop buying Apple if you don't like it. Seriously. At the end of the day all of these companies would do the exact same thing as Apple if they were in Apple's position. The real solution to this is improved functionality of web apps and complete migration to those, then you can be free of the duopoly. Other than using phone specific features, why can't all apps run on your desktop, laptop or elsewhere? I'll never get…

I do like it and I'm tired of tech-brained dorks trying to turn iOS into Linux.

Yeah, same. The walled garden is a feature for me. I like having apps forced to use a single payment processor with a consistent and easy sub/unsubscribe interface. It's not perfect, obviously, but I think it also results in fewer obviously scummy apps. I understand if others don't feel this way, but I do. I would be sad to lose it.

Re: Spotify CEO renews attack on Apple after Musk's salvo

#725

Post by totalZero »

mullingitover wrote: post #79
sschueller wrote: post #21

Elon just tweeted from Apple HQ and is meeting with Tim Cook. Elon also deleted the tweet meme that he's going to war over the 30%. All talk and no substance, this thing won't go anywhere. Elon probably got what he wanted from Apple and everything else is just fud for the masses. Elon does not care the 30% or what Apple does in China. He wants Twitter to stay in the app store and Apple to pay for advertising on Twitt…

> Elon probably got what he wanted from Apple and everything else is just fud for the masses I feel like Elon going Apple HQ is not a sign that he got what he wanted, it's a sign that he was summoned there to be disciplined. If he had some form of leverage over Tim Cook, it would be Cook that would be doing the traveling.

At that level, any kind of in-person visit is a sign of mutual good will. Traveling to see someone is an act of respect, and opening your doors to someone honors that person. Not every interaction is zero-sum.

Re: Spotify CEO renews attack on Apple after Musk's salvo

#726

Post by 2OEH8eoCRo0 »

dalbasal wrote: post #679

Kettle. Pot. Black. Monopolistic practices is what Spotify is, not just something it does. Recently they went about buying podcasts. The idea was/is to kill off the free protocol and centralise podcasts under their control... That way, listeners, advertisers and podcasters would all have to live by spotify's rules. Like streaming music. Sure. Apple give themselves every advantage, cream the market, etc. They have a m…

Two wrongs don't make a right. Spotify and Musk's conduct have no bearing on the validity of their arguments. Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.

Re: Spotify CEO renews attack on Apple after Musk's salvo

#727

Post by SkyPuncher »

girvo wrote: post #544
SkyPuncher wrote: post #366

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eh. Get an Apple TV. HDMI CEC means you never have to interact with the default UI.

I have one! That’s the plan currently. But you can’t avoid it entirely, it’s why TVs are so slow to turn on, they still try to collect data and so on.

Odd. I have two TVs. Neither of them have this issue.

Re: Spotify CEO renews attack on Apple after Musk's salvo

#728

Post by fsflover »

rosnd wrote: post #668
anonymous_sorry wrote: post #508

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This disagreement is purely about semantics. In case its not clear, Linux the operating system typically means the Linux kernel plus a set of unix-inspired GPL-licenced userspace tools. Some (still) call this GNU/Linux, although that is a bit of a mouthful. Android has a completely different userspace to "Linux". The kernel is not the issue.

Well that's silly, the userspace you are talking about is strictly useless on phones. Every single attempt at building a reasonable mobile userspace for GNU/Linux has been a complete failure. What would that even look like? Almost all graphical GNU/Linux tools depend on X11, which is completely unsuited for phones. But if you want, you can totally install all the GNU userspace tools on Android. Nothing is stopping yo…

This is false. Sent from my Pinephone with Mobian.

Re: Spotify CEO renews attack on Apple after Musk's salvo

#729

Post by scarface74 »

orhmeh09 wrote: post #612
scarface74 wrote: post #536

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes and I’m sure if Apple allowed side loading those side loaded apps would be successful. Just look at all of the popular profitable mainstream apps for Android that are not on the Google Play store. But it came out in the Epic Trial that 80% of App Store revenue came from pay to win games. Most of the other big none game money makers stopped supporting in app purchases years ago - like Netflix and Spotify.

FWIW, HBO Max, Hulu, Paramount, Criterion, and probably others offer subscriptions in app. What else doesn’t? Amazon, maybe?

Hulu only allows in app subscriptions for the streaming video on demand level. They don’t allow in app purchases of the much more expensive Hulu Live offering.

As far as I know, you can’t subscribe to any of the cable alternative streaming services via in app purchases (Hulu Live, YouTube Live, Sling or DirecTV).

New subscribers to Netflix haven’t been able to sign up through the App Store for ages.

It’s very much a business decision whether they allow in app purchases.

Re: Spotify CEO renews attack on Apple after Musk's salvo

#730

Post by areyousure »

dalbasal wrote: post #699
JanSt wrote: post #688

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like Apple is a much stronger offender than Spotify. You can literally not use billions of devices on this planet for your app* if you don't send something like a 25-50% cut of all your possible profits (15-30% of revenue(!)) to them. That makes apple effectively (in monetary terms) an owner of many businesses they shouldn't own. * no, not any application can run fine in safari

Apple is a much bigger company than Spotify. In. fact, it's quite impressive how monopolistic they managed to become for their size. There are a lot of monopolies and wanna be monopolies about. That's why big tech profit margins are so high. All I am saying is that if your business model is entirely based on market monopolisation, to the extent that spotify's model is... go f ##$ yourself. Yes, Apple charges you a ta…

> That's why Google pay Apple >$100bn pa to be their default search engine.

In case anyone is curious, reports of Google's payments to Apple have been in the range 8--20 billion dollars/year. The highest estimates appear to be $8--12 billion in 2020, $15 billion in 2021, and $18--20 billion in 2022. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/25/technology/apple-google-s... https://archive.ph/loAMx

My estimates from the information I have found suggest that the amount Google has paid to Apple for being the default search engine (on Macs, iPhones, etc) to be less than 65 billion nominal dollars total for all time, or less than 80 billion present value (ie, CPI-adjusted) dollars total for all time.

Post reply on HN