Spotify CEO renews attack on Apple after Musk's salvo • Hacker News Board

Re: Spotify CEO renews attack on Apple after Musk's salvo

#701

Post by fluoridation » Thu, Dec 01, 2022, 1:57 PM UTC

Goz3rr wrote: post #549

TeMPOraL wrote: post #497

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They aren't "not supporting any other OS", they're causing the hardware to damage itself to prevent that software from working. It's like your laptop's motherboard detected you installed another OS in place of the OEM-provided Windows installation, and overvoltaged your NVidia GPU to burn it out. "We have every right to not support high-performance graphics on any other OS other than our own - if you want to install…

Damaging the hardware is a bit of an overstatement. What people are calling fuses isn't really a fuse in the traditional sense. An eFuse usually is just write once memory. All the limiting features are implemented in software which reads out the state of this memory.

If someone goes to the trouble of implementing an efuse, they will also implement the check in the hardware so it can't be bypassed. An easy example is optical drives with fixed numbers of region switches that refuse at the hardware level to read discs from the wrong region and also refuse at the hardware level to switch regions once all the fuses have been blown.

Re: Spotify CEO renews attack on Apple after Musk's salvo

#702

Post by ChoHag » Thu, Dec 01, 2022, 1:57 PM UTC

vineyardmike wrote: post #630

heavyset_go wrote: post #524

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It isn't 2003 anymore, operating system vendors have been taking security seriously for a while now. Abuse and malware are not a problem on macOS despite barely anyone using the Mac App Store to install apps. Same goes for Windows, it isn't Windows XP anymore, and despite nobody using the Microsoft Store, abuse and malware are much less of a problem than they were in the past. Billions of machines use software distri…

> This argument is typical FUD Yea, most of the argument is “I fear that there will be generated uncertainty in how trustworthy apps will be. I doubt that most people can make smart decisions. > it's very common for App Store apologists to not argue based on what's happening today with other app distribution methods I’m not an App Store apologist, but also APT is hardly a fair comparison For many obvious reasons, not…

No post body was provided.

Re: Spotify CEO renews attack on Apple after Musk's salvo

#703

Post by bzzzt » Thu, Dec 01, 2022, 1:59 PM UTC

matkoniecz wrote: post #664

laserlight wrote: post #654

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know. What's your point?

that it does not happen on Android, as far as I know, and likely it would not be a big problem on iPhone

Maybe because Android just allows the privacy invading stuff iOS tries to limit?

Re: Spotify CEO renews attack on Apple after Musk's salvo

#704

Post by geocar » Thu, Dec 01, 2022, 2:00 PM UTC

donmcronald wrote: post #5

I want the option to control my devices. I don’t understand the arguments that claim Apple needs to rule the device with an iron fist. What problems does it cause to make the locked down experience the default with the option for me to disable that and take control of the device after I buy it? I want to own my stuff. I want to repair it and I want complete control over it. I think that in 10 years we’ll all have car…

> I want the option to control my devices. ... I want complete control over it.

Learn!

I can install my own software on my iPhone, and I can install software people have shared with me that I can inspect. I can affect the repairs I have the tools to make.

You don't need anything but a brain to learn how to do these things, but you'll definitely need a brain to understand why (or when) you shouldn't:

> I don’t understand the arguments that claim Apple needs to rule the device with an iron fist

> What problems does it cause to make the locked down experience the default with the option for me to disable that and take control of the device after I buy it?

What people like Elon Musk and Daniel Ek are asking for the ability to install software on my phone that allows them to install more software that I cannot inspect.

Now to be clear: I have the ability to do this thing to my device, but I don't think I should do it for the same reason I don't want to give any application on my computer my root password -- I understand one application needs to know it, but as soon as there's two that means there are two single-points-of-failure, and that's worse; a mistake in either program could reveal all of the secrets my phone has, or trick me into giving away ones that are only in my head.

I am also glad it is a little difficult because it means my friends and family cannot be easily tricked into doing it.

Re: Spotify CEO renews attack on Apple after Musk's salvo

#705

Post by eternalban » Thu, Dec 01, 2022, 2:06 PM UTC

donmcronald wrote: post #5

I want the option to control my devices. I don’t understand the arguments that claim Apple needs to rule the device with an iron fist. What problems does it cause to make the locked down experience the default with the option for me to disable that and take control of the device after I buy it? I want to own my stuff. I want to repair it and I want complete control over it. I think that in 10 years we’ll all have car…

> What problems does it cause to make the locked down experience the default with the option for me to disable that and take control of the device after I buy it?

Apple can legitimately be worried that possible subpar/bad experiences with an Apple device (caused by user choices) will damage their brand and what the name is supposed to stand for in consumer space. It is fair to assume that normal people will not pay attention to details such as 'I disabled the walled garden'. So I'm pretty sure their position is 'Sure, your device but we're certainly not going to help you damage our brand's reputation'. They may have a point since your device at most costs $2k. Their reputation cost Apple billions of dollars to acquire.

Re: Spotify CEO renews attack on Apple after Musk's salvo

#706

Post by dalbasal » Thu, Dec 01, 2022, 2:07 PM UTC

yobbo wrote: post #690

dalbasal wrote: post #679

Kettle. Pot. Black. Monopolistic practices is what Spotify is, not just something it does. Recently they went about buying podcasts. The idea was/is to kill off the free protocol and centralise podcasts under their control... That way, listeners, advertisers and podcasters would all have to live by spotify's rules. Like streaming music. Sure. Apple give themselves every advantage, cream the market, etc. They have a m…

It's not technically a monopoly, but in so far as it might become one, it is someone else's responsibility to tweet and complain about it. And there is a difference in scale between Apple's control and everyone else's.

>> It's not technically a monopoly

What is the technicality? It's certainly a monopoly in layman's terms.

Is the technicality monopsony? IE, the fact that Spotify have more power over artists than consumers? Is it the fact that there are other streaming services in existence, and spotify has I feel like people can specify "textbook-monopoly," if they need to use a hyper-strict definition of one kind or another. For regular conversation, the common definition of the term works fine.

Re: Spotify CEO renews attack on Apple after Musk's salvo

#707

Post by roody15 » Thu, Dec 01, 2022, 2:09 PM UTC

donmcronald wrote: post #5

I want the option to control my devices. I don’t understand the arguments that claim Apple needs to rule the device with an iron fist. What problems does it cause to make the locked down experience the default with the option for me to disable that and take control of the device after I buy it? I want to own my stuff. I want to repair it and I want complete control over it. I think that in 10 years we’ll all have car…

Agree completely. Just simply a money issue. Apple likes to retain full control of its device almost like its a console. This enables maximum profit.

Re: Spotify CEO renews attack on Apple after Musk's salvo

#708

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Dec 01, 2022, 2:09 PM UTC

robbie-c wrote: post #599

endisneigh wrote: post #86

Stop buying Apple if you don't like it. Seriously. At the end of the day all of these companies would do the exact same thing as Apple if they were in Apple's position. The real solution to this is improved functionality of web apps and complete migration to those, then you can be free of the duopoly. Other than using phone specific features, why can't all apps run on your desktop, laptop or elsewhere? I'll never get…

Governments have a responsibility to protect consumers from anti-competitive practices. Saying "just don't buy it" isn't enough, in fact if governments only protected people from things that nobody bought, that would be quite pointless.

[deleted]

Re: Spotify CEO renews attack on Apple after Musk's salvo

#709

Post by geocar » Thu, Dec 01, 2022, 2:09 PM UTC

m463 wrote: post #270

fishcrackers wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like being able to trust my device and my kids device, if you wan't something to hack on get a pinephone or something the reality is that billions of people need to trust their phones with their most personal information, fininaces and lives and apple's policies while sometimes annoying do a lot to build that trust they aren't a big secret and if you don't like it you're free to not buy their products

You seem to be arguing that only apple (or google) has the ability to protect your device. Honestly, the best protection would be the ability to control your own device, and make apple just one of many ways to help you secure it. I would love to be able to firewall my device. To see what apps are doing and to prevent them from doing things you don't like. Then you can trust but verify. By the way, apple does TONS of…

> You seem to be arguing that only apple has the ability to protect your device.

Erm. They make the hardware, so any bugs they put in there are what they are.

I don't see any reason to let more people put bugs in there.

Re: Spotify CEO renews attack on Apple after Musk's salvo

#710

Post by koenvdb » Thu, Dec 01, 2022, 2:10 PM UTC

RHSeeger wrote: post #658

bayindirh wrote: post #427

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand where you are coming from, and support you on that. On the other hand, I'm pretty happy with the default state of an iPhone. It just manages itself, and all that hard problems (backups, updates, ease of use, experience homogenity, etc.) are solved. I manage more than enough servers at work, and I don't want to manage another server in my pocket, do nitty-gritty settings, allow selected apps background ac…

> It just manages itself, and all that hard problems (backups, updates, ease of use, experience homogenity, etc.) are solved. My wife switched away from an iPhone an an Android device less than a year ago exactly because this _wasn't_ the case. - Restore from backup failed... pretty much impossible to solve as far as we could tell - Tell iTunes what songs you want loaded onto your phone and sync. Then leave the house…

To be fair, most people using an iPhone don't download music onto their phones but instead just use Spotify/Apple Music/whatever other music service is hot at the moment. It still sucks, but this is a fairly specific usecase imo.