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TSMC to make 4nm chips in Arizona for Apple, AMD, Nvidia

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Re: TSMC to make 4nm chips in Arizona for Apple, AMD, Nvidia

#201
post #187
post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

US loves expensive faraway wars

They love wars against small third world countries that are easy to win. War with China is probably the only one that US can actually lose.

Not in this lifetime. Unless you are talking about occupying China / storming their territory, that would not go well. But defeating China at sea and in the air and in other countries? They'd have no chance.

Re: TSMC to make 4nm chips in Arizona for Apple, AMD, Nvidia

#202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't want to start a fight, but honestly, I only ever hear those types of arguments from people who don't use Apple hardware. People who do, in large majority, do it for two reasons: - build quality; - it mostly just works.

>>- build quality This is part of the marketing delusion, multiple people have done A/B testing to clearly show Apple Build Quality is either on par with the rest of the industry or in many specific examples WORSE, people that claim this often have ZERO experience with non-apple products or are comparing different classes like a budget consumer level Lenovo to the pro line of apple, of course of $500 unit will be of…

What a passionate comment about Apple. I guess some people are just this invested in Apple enough to write book-long comments on every single thread even tangentially related to Apple.

Re: TSMC to make 4nm chips in Arizona for Apple, AMD, Nvidia

#203
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Taiwanese wages are still much less than US wages, so it won’t be simple.

Keep in mind that much of the West is in a recession that looks quite bad. People will be careful about losing their job maybe even accepting much lower wages as a result.

> Keep in mind that much of the West is in a recession that looks quite bad.

Quite bad based on what? Looks like a completely unsubstantiated claim.

Re: TSMC to make 4nm chips in Arizona for Apple, AMD, Nvidia

#204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, but local fabs in Europe are far, far away from Intel, TSMC and Samsung. Infineon, NXP and STM are wayy behind.

The reason is simple. Europeans don't want to work in chip factories.

Why do you say that? Are semi jobs worse-paid than other skilled jobs, or do they have worse conditions?

Re: TSMC to make 4nm chips in Arizona for Apple, AMD, Nvidia

#205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, but local fabs in Europe are far, far away from Intel, TSMC and Samsung. Infineon, NXP and STM are wayy behind.

The reason is simple. Europeans don't want to work in chip factories.

That applies to Americans too. TSMC will have trouble sourcing good talent for their new plant.

Re: TSMC to make 4nm chips in Arizona for Apple, AMD, Nvidia

#206
post #187
post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

US loves expensive faraway wars

They love wars against small third world countries that are easy to win. War with China is probably the only one that US can actually lose.

As you can tell from the last few decades, winning wars is a secondary concern.

Re: TSMC to make 4nm chips in Arizona for Apple, AMD, Nvidia

#207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, but local fabs in Europe are far, far away from Intel, TSMC and Samsung. Infineon, NXP and STM are wayy behind.

The reason is simple. Europeans don't want to work in chip factories.

That's just not true.

Re: TSMC to make 4nm chips in Arizona for Apple, AMD, Nvidia

#208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always find it odd that companies always want to be build things outside of their home state TSMC -> US Intel -> EU Toyota -> US Honda -> US Ford -> MX / Canada GM -> MX / Canada

It's not that odd that international companies would build local facilities for major markets they're selling into. Toyota sold cars to the US, and building plants here made sense relative to that for a variety of economic and political reasons. Everyone makes more money together so everyone's happy with the arrangement. I find it more odd to presume that corporations have some nationalistic competitive interest.

Cars are big and heavy, and so building them near the buyer has a logistics benefit. Chips have higher value per weight and size by orders of magnitude.

Re: TSMC to make 4nm chips in Arizona for Apple, AMD, Nvidia

#209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, but local fabs in Europe are far, far away from Intel, TSMC and Samsung. Infineon, NXP and STM are wayy behind.

The reason is simple. Europeans don't want to work in chip factories.

Do you have hard numbers how much it would impact the bottom line to offer fab employees good wages and work-live balance? It's not like fabs are employing fast armies of low skilled labourers in sweatshop (even if you do sweat under PPA).

Re: TSMC to make 4nm chips in Arizona for Apple, AMD, Nvidia

#210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, but local fabs in Europe are far, far away from Intel, TSMC and Samsung. Infineon, NXP and STM are wayy behind.

This is largely because Europe became infatuated with austerity and its industrial policy has suffered as a consequence. You want big, cutting-edge fabs? You’re going to need to spend public money getting them off the ground. TSMC’s success is in part due to Taiwan itself designating semiconductors as a key strategic economic interest years ago and making investments/tax breaks accordingly

> This is largely because Europe became infatuated with austerity and its industrial policy has suffered as a consequence.

Was austerity broad-based or specifically targeted toward industrial areas? I'd always assumed austerity meant cutting back on public benefits/pensions/etc. but not strategic areas like this which is why I'm curious.

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