It's a cool concept but the first naive thought that comes to mind for me is that white could just easily dominate by taking advantage of the fact that taking a queen is almost always the top engine move. So just by maintaining relative king safety on white's side, you just open your queen early and make sure that every move there onwards hangs your queen in some fashion. It's very easy to hang a queen. You just have…
As long as you only leave them with one way to take the queen.
Human Chess is a chess variant where playing the top engine move is forbidden
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Re: Human Chess is a chess variant where playing the top engine move is forbidden
#62It's a cool concept but the first naive thought that comes to mind for me is that white could just easily dominate by taking advantage of the fact that taking a queen is almost always the top engine move. So just by maintaining relative king safety on white's side, you just open your queen early and make sure that every move there onwards hangs your queen in some fashion. It's very easy to hang a queen. You just have…
Re: Human Chess is a chess variant where playing the top engine move is forbidden
#63Earlier quoted context omitted.
As long as you only leave them with one way to take the queen.
Damn that's true
Re: Human Chess is a chess variant where playing the top engine move is forbidden
#64It's a cool concept but the first naive thought that comes to mind for me is that white could just easily dominate by taking advantage of the fact that taking a queen is almost always the top engine move. So just by maintaining relative king safety on white's side, you just open your queen early and make sure that every move there onwards hangs your queen in some fashion. It's very easy to hang a queen. You just have…
Re: Human Chess is a chess variant where playing the top engine move is forbidden
#65It's a cool concept but the first naive thought that comes to mind for me is that white could just easily dominate by taking advantage of the fact that taking a queen is almost always the top engine move. So just by maintaining relative king safety on white's side, you just open your queen early and make sure that every move there onwards hangs your queen in some fashion. It's very easy to hang a queen. You just have…
However, the thought you had, and similar ones, are very much the intentional side-effect of the rules. The only way to win the game, as stated, is forcing your opponent to make the top engine move. Or, of course, correctly claim that your opponent made such a move (even though it wasn't forced). Or, having your opponent make the incorrect claim about your move.
So, it isn't necessarily "playing good chess". Though, I must say, I'm not qualified to have any good idea of what it would mean to be good at this game. It definitely helps to be good at chess, and have a good command of what are the correct engine moves. Especially since you lose if you incorrectly claim a position and opponent move was "the top engine line".
I suppose most would reduce this to leaving the opponent to only one legal move. In which case, the problem is is trivial. But, after move 2? You need to know most opening lines, and probably play intentionally bad in many situations.
Hm, this is cooler the more I think about it.
Imagine intentionally setting up material sacrifice with a resulting choice of multiple moves for the opponent to capitalize. If you can correctly evaluate the best computer move, you have a strong advantage. If it is not obvious, then the opponent might not dare to gamble the challenge.
Has Hikaru tried this in one of his streams? I'm certain he would have a blast.
The only thing about this that doesn't "spark joy" are the ambiguous practical implementations.
- Which engine? This matters a lot.
- How do you define the computational cut-off? CPU-minutes? Move depth? Etc. Not necessarily a simple problem.
- The rule "When multiple moves have the top score, they are all top moves". Needs a specific score evaluation delta for grouping "top moves".
All of these could rather simply be resolved if it isn't very important... might even add some uncertainty to it, for fun. Like, say: 1. Stockfish 15. 2. Allow the computer whatever resources it has available, 1 minute, and play some drum roll sample. 3. Pawn-evlauation of 0.05.
Re: Human Chess is a chess variant where playing the top engine move is forbidden
#66Re: Human Chess is a chess variant where playing the top engine move is forbidden
#67Re: Human Chess is a chess variant where playing the top engine move is forbidden
#68The Fisher 960 variant tries to do this, but it can be very different from regular chess, and some of the positions are unbalanced.
I think we can use the fact that engines know when a position is even. There must be millions of even positions in the first 10 or so moves. Pick one of those randomly, and start the game.
Re: Human Chess is a chess variant where playing the top engine move is forbidden
#69I've been thinking about a possible chess variant to eliminate opening preparation drudgery. The Fisher 960 variant tries to do this, but it can be very different from regular chess, and some of the positions are unbalanced. I think we can use the fact that engines know when a position is even. There must be millions of even positions in the first 10 or so moves. Pick one of those randomly, and start the game.
Re: Human Chess is a chess variant where playing the top engine move is forbidden
#70Earlier quoted context omitted.
Damn that's true
The article states that if there are multiple moves the engine recommends, that they all count as the "optimal" move, even if there's an indication of preference by the engine.