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TSMC to make 4nm chips in Arizona for Apple, AMD, Nvidia

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Re: TSMC to make 4nm chips in Arizona for Apple, AMD, Nvidia

#131

Post by Rinzler89 »

ekianjo wrote: post #124
Rinzler89 wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ST are in France. Yeah, about that: "STMicroelectronics N.V. commonly referred as ST or STMicro is a Dutch multinational corporation and technology company of French-Italian origin headquartered in Plan-les-Ouates near Geneva, Switzerland" The lengths French and Italian corporations will go to to avoid taxes and red tape in their home countries, it's almost poetic. Even Airbus is now headquartered in Leiden, Nether…

Why would you want to pay more taxes and become uncompetitive if you can avoid it?

I get that many individuals and companies see taxes as wasted money or theft, but taxes pay to fund the education of the workforce that will work for said corporations and fund the infrastructure used by said corporations to build and transport their goods, including stuff like courts which companies can use do protect their IP or military force projection to protect their assets and investments abroad.

Without the skilled workforce or infrastructure the company will for sure not be competitive.

What most big companies are now doing to get insanely wealthy is have most governments foot the bill for the infrastructure, protection, and education of their workforce, while all the profits from the fruit of their labor go directly to shareholders and the governments don't see a dime in taxes so stuff like education, healthcare and infrastructure is falling apart while corporate profits have never been higher.

Re: TSMC to make 4nm chips in Arizona for Apple, AMD, Nvidia

#132

Post by vetinari »

troad wrote: post #118
vetinari wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In roubles, for example. Its not like those who are paid in roubles would have any use for any other currency. Everything they need can be paid for in roubles, turtles all the way down. Sure, you won't get iphone, porsche or gucci wares for that, but those are not necessary to wage the war.

> Sure, you won't get iphone, porsche or gucci wares for that This is where your argument breaks down. Russia imports vast amounts of manufactured goods that it doesn't have the capacity to make itself, including basic military and basic consumer goods, and for which it needs something that their trade partners might conceivably want. Which ain't roubles, for the most part.

> that it doesn't have the capacity to make itself, including basic military and basic consumer goods,

They do have capacity to fully cover their entire military needs.

For consumer goods, they are trading with China, India and other countries in a mix of currencies, that includes rouble.

The freezing of their USD and EUR assets was a huge mistake; it demonstrated to the world that such assets are not safe.

Re: TSMC to make 4nm chips in Arizona for Apple, AMD, Nvidia

#133

Post by ekianjo »

midasz wrote: post #34
i_have_an_idea wrote: post #2

Quoted post unavailable.

What? Is the USA going to sell their chips to China? Because when Taiwan gets invaded the Fabs will be destroyed and/or made inoperable with no way to get them functional again.

who says there is only one way to invade Taiwan? a maritime blockade would be super effective to suffocate Taiwan in a matter of months and destroy their economy.

Re: TSMC to make 4nm chips in Arizona for Apple, AMD, Nvidia

#134

Post by ekianjo »

vineyardmike wrote: post #52
midasz wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What? Is the USA going to sell their chips to China? Because when Taiwan gets invaded the Fabs will be destroyed and/or made inoperable with no way to get them functional again.

China is already working on their own chips. It’s only a matter of time before it’s good enough .

lol your overstimate the Chinese tech by a generation at least.

Re: TSMC to make 4nm chips in Arizona for Apple, AMD, Nvidia

#135

Post by helsinkiandrew »

phpisthebest wrote: post #103
huijzer wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The most common reason is typically cheaper labour. That’s why Nike produced in Japan and then moved to even cheaper countries. Related might be that some countries have a lot of knowledge workers in their 40-50s who can then manage factories in other countries. Japanse companies producing cars in Europe is an example of that. For the current trend to move to the US. That has to be government funding. Luckily, fabs r…

>>typically cheaper labour. While a factor, labor costs alone are the primary reason. In reality is more about the wider regulatory burden on a company, including environmental controls That said it does not explain why a Japan Company can make cars profitably in the US but a US Manufacturer can not. If it was only labor why would Toyota not have a factory right next to GM's in Mexico and import cars from Mexico to t…

I guess its that the Japanese Company can make cars profitably anywhere but making cars for the US market in the US means there's no/less import taxes, also because the factories are huge they often get local tax breaks, and the cars may also eligible for EV/hybrid tax credits (I think Toyota have sold over 200K so there cars can no longer get this).

I think making cars in Mexico for the US became less worthwhile when Trump pulled the US out of NAFTA.

Re: TSMC to make 4nm chips in Arizona for Apple, AMD, Nvidia

#136

Post by ekianjo »

KenChicken wrote: post #97
holoduke wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are lightyears behind. 20 years if not more. These chip machines is work of many decates of iterative work. You cannot simply step in and produce similar tech.

You underestimate the insane R&D investment china can put on its chip industry to get ahead quicker

If money was the driver the US would be first, not Taiwan.

Re: TSMC to make 4nm chips in Arizona for Apple, AMD, Nvidia

#137

Post by philliphaydon »

ajross wrote: post #115
thorin wrote: post #92

If the company is Taiwanese is there not still a concern with dependency on China and leaking of information. I realise it's important to have local manufacturing, but is this still essentially a "Chinese" company considering the disputed territory thing? Excuse my ignorance here about how such things work.

Taiwan is "Chinese" ethnically, being populated[1] by descendants of many waves of Han colonization over the last few centuries. Concern over "China" has nothing to do with ethnicity, it's a geopolitical fight with the government of the People's Republic of China, which does not[2] rule Taiwan. [1] To be clear: there are also descendants of indigenous "Taiwanese" living there, who are austronesian and not Han. Ethnic…

Where exactly does this “Han” stuff come from because most people in China are not actually han and those in Taiwan are not han.

Re: TSMC to make 4nm chips in Arizona for Apple, AMD, Nvidia

#138

Post by lmz »

phpisthebest wrote: post #103
huijzer wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The most common reason is typically cheaper labour. That’s why Nike produced in Japan and then moved to even cheaper countries. Related might be that some countries have a lot of knowledge workers in their 40-50s who can then manage factories in other countries. Japanse companies producing cars in Europe is an example of that. For the current trend to move to the US. That has to be government funding. Luckily, fabs r…

>>typically cheaper labour. While a factor, labor costs alone are the primary reason. In reality is more about the wider regulatory burden on a company, including environmental controls That said it does not explain why a Japan Company can make cars profitably in the US but a US Manufacturer can not. If it was only labor why would Toyota not have a factory right next to GM's in Mexico and import cars from Mexico to t…

I thought Japanese car factories in the US were all non-union (as opposed to the US brands)? Toyota does have a Mexico factory at least according to Wikipedia.

Re: TSMC to make 4nm chips in Arizona for Apple, AMD, Nvidia

#139

Post by Symbiote »

squarefoot wrote: post #24

Hopefully we'll do something like that here in the EU too. We're experiencing the hard way how's like depending on the energy and resources of warmongering criminal dictators; it would be wise to start moving away from technological dependence on China asap.

TSMC is Taiwanese with factories in Taiwan.

Re: TSMC to make 4nm chips in Arizona for Apple, AMD, Nvidia

#140

Post by justahuman74 »

BirAdam wrote: post #119
xiphias2 wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If Intel is not good enough for US, why would it be good for EU? It's clear that EU did what US wanted instead of what would be in its interest.

Intel is still holds the market on laptops and desktops at about 3/4. They simply push more volume. TSMC makes desktop chips for Apple, but Apple isn’t the majority. The rest of TSMC’s production is almost exclusively GPUs and phones, and this could change. If Intel executes well on their next nodes, and should TSMC slip at all, Intel could pull ahead. Never count Intel out. People thought Intel would die after the z…

The market isn't laptops/desktops and phones, everything has ICs in it these days. Laptops/desktops and phones are just the high-margin items.

The blast-radius for non-intel chip fabricators is much wider and impactful for the economy

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