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TSMC to make 4nm chips in Arizona for Apple, AMD, Nvidia

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Re: TSMC to make 4nm chips in Arizona for Apple, AMD, Nvidia

#101

Post by midasz »

phpisthebest wrote: post #98
midasz wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think Europe has much of a choice. It's either sanctioning Russia and suffering ourselves, or allowing Ukraine to be taken with the horrors that come with that. If it would end there, maybe but still no, but it won't end there. Who is next on Russia's list?

>> don't think Europe has much of a choice. The choice was made decades ago on the alter of faux environmentalism to export the environmental cost of energy production to another nation so the EU could claim moral superiority in the climate change battle. Completely decimating domestic energy sources.

No one gave a hoot about climate change decades ago. Russian gas is cheap. That's it. No idea what you're on about.

Re: TSMC to make 4nm chips in Arizona for Apple, AMD, Nvidia

#102

Post by LegitShady »

huijzer wrote: post #90
squarefoot wrote: post #24

Hopefully we'll do something like that here in the EU too. We're experiencing the hard way how's like depending on the energy and resources of warmongering criminal dictators; it would be wise to start moving away from technological dependence on China asap.

Actually, Europe is doing pretty good due to having a monopoly on making chip making machines via ASML in the Netherlands which relies heavily on Carl Zeiss in Germany. Fun fact by the way, at some point Japan and Europe were very close in state-of-the-art semiconductor manufacturing while the US didn’t have the capabilities anymore because it was outcompeted by Japan. At that point, the US donated funds and 20 years…

having a 'monopoly on making chip making machines' is not the same as having fabs.

Re: TSMC to make 4nm chips in Arizona for Apple, AMD, Nvidia

#103

Post by phpisthebest »

huijzer wrote: post #99
phpisthebest wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always find it odd that companies always want to be build things outside of their home state TSMC -> US Intel -> EU Toyota -> US Honda -> US Ford -> MX / Canada GM -> MX / Canada

The most common reason is typically cheaper labour. That’s why Nike produced in Japan and then moved to even cheaper countries. Related might be that some countries have a lot of knowledge workers in their 40-50s who can then manage factories in other countries. Japanse companies producing cars in Europe is an example of that. For the current trend to move to the US. That has to be government funding. Luckily, fabs r…

>>typically cheaper labour.

While a factor, labor costs alone are the primary reason. In reality is more about the wider regulatory burden on a company, including environmental controls

That said it does not explain why a Japan Company can make cars profitably in the US but a US Manufacturer can not.

If it was only labor why would Toyota not have a factory right next to GM's in Mexico and import cars from Mexico to the US?

Re: TSMC to make 4nm chips in Arizona for Apple, AMD, Nvidia

#104

Post by huijzer »

AdamN wrote: post #59
xiphias2 wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If Intel is not good enough for US, why would it be good for EU? It's clear that EU did what US wanted instead of what would be in its interest.

Intel has lots of leading edge fabs in the US and continues to build them. They made some business mistakes around not opening up their chip design the way ARM enabled ... but the tech capacity is all there. Now they are doing contract production for chips that they did not design so I expect them to catch up in a few years.

Meanwhile Chris Miller in Chip War argues that Intel will fail again since nobody wants to give their secrets to Intel. If you’re Apple, for example, then handing over chip designs to Intel isn’t ideal in terms of competition.

Re: TSMC to make 4nm chips in Arizona for Apple, AMD, Nvidia

#105

Post by helsinkiandrew »

thorin wrote: post #92

If the company is Taiwanese is there not still a concern with dependency on China and leaking of information. I realise it's important to have local manufacturing, but is this still essentially a "Chinese" company considering the disputed territory thing? Excuse my ignorance here about how such things work.

It's a Taiwanese company with no dependency on China. TSMC has the knowledge and expertise to make 4nm chips anywhere - you could view this as their information 'leaking' to the US.

Re: TSMC to make 4nm chips in Arizona for Apple, AMD, Nvidia

#106

Post by spaniard89277 »

huijzer wrote: post #90
squarefoot wrote: post #24

Hopefully we'll do something like that here in the EU too. We're experiencing the hard way how's like depending on the energy and resources of warmongering criminal dictators; it would be wise to start moving away from technological dependence on China asap.

Actually, Europe is doing pretty good due to having a monopoly on making chip making machines via ASML in the Netherlands which relies heavily on Carl Zeiss in Germany. Fun fact by the way, at some point Japan and Europe were very close in state-of-the-art semiconductor manufacturing while the US didn’t have the capabilities anymore because it was outcompeted by Japan. At that point, the US donated funds and 20 years…

Yeah, but local fabs in Europe are far, far away from Intel, TSMC and Samsung. Infineon, NXP and STM are wayy behind.

Re: TSMC to make 4nm chips in Arizona for Apple, AMD, Nvidia

#107

Post by _zoltan_ »

formerly_proven wrote: post #84
ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How leading edge will Intel's Germany fab be when it's finished? 10nm++? While TSMC will be on what, 1nm by then? Intel's PR link doesn't go into details on this.

Intel's "10nm+" (non-EUV) processors compete rather fiercely with AMD's "5nm" (EUV) processors. The latter are weirdly not 2x better, not even close, on any metric. Hm.

competes???? in what universe?

have looked at perf per W?

Re: TSMC to make 4nm chips in Arizona for Apple, AMD, Nvidia

#108

Post by phpisthebest »

midasz wrote: post #101
phpisthebest wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> don't think Europe has much of a choice. The choice was made decades ago on the alter of faux environmentalism to export the environmental cost of energy production to another nation so the EU could claim moral superiority in the climate change battle. Completely decimating domestic energy sources.

No one gave a hoot about climate change decades ago. Russian gas is cheap. That's it. No idea what you're on about.

>>No one gave a hoot about climate change decades ago

Well that is simply false.

Re: TSMC to make 4nm chips in Arizona for Apple, AMD, Nvidia

#109

Post by LegitShady »

mschuster91 wrote: post #80
vetinari wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> (thus funding their war of aggression) I see this repeated as a matra, in a way of Carthago delenda est. But it is not true. Said warmongering dictators do not need dollars or euros to wage any war. The entire chain of the war machine is in local currency, backed by local resources. They do not need anything there, that has to be bought for dollars or euros. They are not some third would countries that have to buy…

> The entire chain of the war machine is in local currency, backed by local resources. Not really. There are already signs that the Russian military industry is in hot water now because there are no Russian semiconductor fabs that can supply the type of chips needed for anything beyond dumb ballistic missiles [1]. And it's not just chips, but also other basic electronic components or modules whose manufacturing has l…

the CPP will provide them whatever they need in exchange for influence and power
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