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TSMC to make 4nm chips in Arizona for Apple, AMD, Nvidia

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Re: TSMC to make 4nm chips in Arizona for Apple, AMD, Nvidia

#41

Post by sofixa »

xiphias2 wrote: post #37
Aromasin wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Already being planned by Intel. They're building a new leading edge fab in Magdeburg, Germany [1]. This is backed by the new European Chips Act [2]. Wheels have started turning very quickly with regards to home-grown semiconductors in 2022. [1] https://www.intel.co.uk/content/www/uk/en/newsroom/news/eu-n... [2] https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/ip_22_...

If Intel is not good enough for US, why would it be good for EU? It's clear that EU did what US wanted instead of what would be in its interest.

> If Intel is not good enough for US, why would it be good for EU?

Who said they're not good enough? They're slightly worse than TSMC, but still put out competitive chips for desktops, laptops and servers. Slightly more expensive, slightly higher power consumption but still, perfectly acceptable and still the market leader in some areas.

> It's clear that EU did what US wanted instead of what would be in its interest.

No, it's not clear. Why would the EU do that? They did the best they could given the very limited choice present.

Re: TSMC to make 4nm chips in Arizona for Apple, AMD, Nvidia

#42

Post by mensetmanusman »

soco wrote: post #31
rjzzleep wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're also building a fab in Japan and that one seems to be progressing much faster. About the Invasion of Taiwan, I kinda doubt it. They just had local elections and the president Tsai said it would be a referendum on her stance against China[1]. IF that is really the case then it seems like the Taiwanese people have voted against being turned into another Ukraine.[2] I am not currently in Taiwan, but a couple of…

I wonder how people would vote, if forced to choose between acting like Ukrainians or being treated like Uighurs.

Be a slave or fight for freedom?

Re: TSMC to make 4nm chips in Arizona for Apple, AMD, Nvidia

#43

Post by totalZero »

etaioinshrdlu wrote: post #12

Does the CHIPS act have anything to do with making this happen? It's funny to think that the supply chain gurus at Apple & NVIDIA may be doing the work of geopolitics in the service of just defending their bottom line from disruption.

Apple spent something like a half-trillion on share buybacks. They could have averted this crisis a decade ago by thinking strategically. They didn't. Why give them credit where little or no credit is due?

Re: TSMC to make 4nm chips in Arizona for Apple, AMD, Nvidia

#44

Post by usrusr »

soco wrote: post #31
rjzzleep wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're also building a fab in Japan and that one seems to be progressing much faster. About the Invasion of Taiwan, I kinda doubt it. They just had local elections and the president Tsai said it would be a referendum on her stance against China[1]. IF that is really the case then it seems like the Taiwanese people have voted against being turned into another Ukraine.[2] I am not currently in Taiwan, but a couple of…

I wonder how people would vote, if forced to choose between acting like Ukrainians or being treated like Uighurs.

That would certainly be a difficult vote, but I think the second alternative would be more like being treated like Hong Kong. Certainly not nice and probably a bit worse than Hong Kong, but a very long shot from the Uighur situation.

Re: TSMC to make 4nm chips in Arizona for Apple, AMD, Nvidia

#46

Post by jwr »

squarefoot wrote: post #24

Hopefully we'll do something like that here in the EU too. We're experiencing the hard way how's like depending on the energy and resources of warmongering criminal dictators; it would be wise to start moving away from technological dependence on China asap.

> We're experiencing the hard way how's like depending on the energy and resources of warmongering criminal dictators

I'm not sure we're learning, though.

At the moment, it seems that we are not only still buying the energy and resources from said warmongering criminal dictators (thus funding their war of aggression), but also setting up institutions to patrol gas pipelines, so that said dictator cannot blow them up as easily and so that we can buy even more resources from said dictator. You couldn't make this up.

In light of this, I have little hope for rational policy making regarding China and chip production, unfortunately.

Re: TSMC to make 4nm chips in Arizona for Apple, AMD, Nvidia

#48

Post by sofixa »

rjzzleep wrote: post #18
ktta wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pretty sure. https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-congress/house-bill/4346

There is also the inflation reduction act that is very enticing to European industry giants that are facing hardship or downright insolvency due to their own governments stupid energy sanctions game. In fact NOW suddenly Macron and Scholz find it unfair that the US is snatching these company's. I can't say I have much sympathy for Europe. Well played US. I wonder to what extent you can get subsidies from both acts. I…

> due to their own governments stupid energy sanctions game

Having morals and accepting hardship for standing up for them is not stupid. It's a principled stance most Europeans agree with. Governments need to step in and help whenever needed (with price caps for consumers, advantageous loans to businesses) to smooth it out, but it was that or appeasement, and we all know very well it doesn't work.

Re: TSMC to make 4nm chips in Arizona for Apple, AMD, Nvidia

#49

Post by totalZero »

est wrote: post #9

so we are heading to the next over-invested semiconductor cyle?

We are headed to a regime where more redundancy has to be baked into the fabbing business so that Taiwan can go offline (if/when China invades) without making phones and computers and datacenters completely un-upgradeable.

Re: TSMC to make 4nm chips in Arizona for Apple, AMD, Nvidia

#50

Post by vineyardmike »

thejosh wrote: post #6
sendfoods wrote: post #3

I think it cannot be understated how important this may be in the future, given the geopolitical situation btw the US/EU, China and Taiwan.

I wonder if the distribution/import costs would be offset by the wage cost?

Considering some of these chips will go back to Asia for manufacturing… probably not.
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