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Spotify CEO renews attack on Apple after Musk's salvo

reuters.com

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Re: Spotify CEO renews attack on Apple after Musk's salvo

#391

Post by cmdli »

pessimizer wrote: post #125
veilrap wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The restricted App Store does add customer value, and that customer value is degraded if there are other App Stores available. Namely - if a user buys Apple products because they want the security/curation/whatever that comes with Apple's walled garden, that advantage is broken by forcing Apple to have other app stores on their platform because now that user cannot get all the content through their trusted source as…

So having more than one app store degrades the experience of people who choose to use Apple's app store like having more than one newspaper degrades the experience of people who read the New York Post.

That's exactly true. Right now, app megacorporations are only using Apple's App Store (with the protections like Ask Not To Track) because they are forced to. The moment those corporations aren't forced to, they will turn around and force whatever consumers to use the app store that the corporations prefer.

The choice of app store isn't ever in the consumer's hands, its in the corporations hands (Apple or otherwise).

Re: Spotify CEO renews attack on Apple after Musk's salvo

#392

Post by acomjean »

majormajor wrote: post #217
satvikpendem wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you assume Apple doesn't also track every website and email you read (especially if you use the default Apple-made apps)? After all, they make the OS, they can track whatever they want.

Nobody's reported seeing that sort of network traffic sent off of iOS devices. It's trivially easy to spot it, and it's well documented, going to Google and others across the web, though.

Safari on iOS is auto-completing stuff as you type. The option to search with google comes up if you get far enough.

And it’s not going to google first. If you type an address the “link” at the top is to Apple Maps. They seem to do a similar thing with place names. I’m not sure but one can be fairly certain they’re using the phones location to help….

Re: Spotify CEO renews attack on Apple after Musk's salvo

#393

Post by hparadiz »

achow wrote: post #365
KennyBlanken wrote: post #342

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What? Samsung is the most hostile of manufacturers in this regard. Unlocking the bootloader, installing another bootloader, or running a different kernel burns fuses permanently in the device and renders it unable to use their version of hardware-secured storage, aka "Knox." Kiss some multimedia apps, payment apps, and enterprise security features goodbye...along with a bunch of random features like private mode in t…

Why would Samsung allow its proprietary 'Knox' to work with other bootloaded OS? They have every right to not support any other OS other than their own.

Knox is actually irrelevant as most custom roms just fake whatever value is needed to get certain apps going and it's really just Samsung pay I believe.

Re: Spotify CEO renews attack on Apple after Musk's salvo

#394

Post by spacemadness »

wvenable wrote: post #132
endisneigh wrote: post #86

Stop buying Apple if you don't like it. Seriously. At the end of the day all of these companies would do the exact same thing as Apple if they were in Apple's position. The real solution to this is improved functionality of web apps and complete migration to those, then you can be free of the duopoly. Other than using phone specific features, why can't all apps run on your desktop, laptop or elsewhere? I'll never get…

> The real solution to this is improved functionality of web apps and complete migration to those Progress on that front is hampered because fruit company only allows their own browser and puts just enough effort into it to keep it relevant as a web browser.

Is it really all Apple? Sites like Reddit hammer you with “it’s better on the app!” spam so they can force you to see ads and whatever else they want you to see.

Re: Spotify CEO renews attack on Apple after Musk's salvo

#395

Post by hparadiz »

Benjamin_Dobell wrote: post #284
hparadiz wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The bootloader in on Samsung Android devices is extremely locked down to prevent rooting. Sideloading is a basic android feature. Ability to root and sideloading are two different but similar issues on the topic of freedom.

Typically, no, Samsung are one of the few manufacturers who consistently don't lock bootloaders. I've been flashing Samsung Android phones for over 10 years: https://github.com/Benjamin-Dobell/Heimdall That said, they have locked bootloaders on some devices. Predominantly in the US market, I believe at the request of carriers. However, it's traditionally been the minority of devices.

Well my experiences with the galaxy S10+ was horrible trying to get an unsigned rom to stick. I personally prefer Sony devices now.

Re: Spotify CEO renews attack on Apple after Musk's salvo

#396

Post by fshbbdssbbgdd »

7e wrote: post #360
fshbbdssbbgdd wrote: post #326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s a common misconception that ad tracking is all about targeting ads. That’s part of it, but the truth is that tracking conversions is a more important differentiator for advertising platforms. A conversion is where the user clicks on the ad and then makes a purchase. The top digital ad companies (Apple, Google, Meta, Amazon) all charge for conversions. There is no way to charge for conversions without sending…

That’s not true. They could use differentially private on-device joins using anonymously downloaded ad data. Or they could securely aggregate the results. Or both.

Can you elaborate? I see an ad in the News app, then click on it and make a purchase from Clash of Clans in the App Store. Apple needs to charge Clash of Clans for the conversion. How do they do it?

Apple knows that I bought the app (they charged me for it).

In order to charge Clash of Clans for the conversion, my phone needs to connect to Apple and send them a record of the ad click. What if clicking on that ad and buying the app are the only thing I ever did on the phone? There’s nothing to aggregate locally, and Apple knows they got the conversion data from me.

Perhaps the claim is that my phone is going to send all these records to Apple, and Apple is just going to do the right thing and run programs that do the business without letting any of their people look at anything they aren’t supposed to look at (they could internally accomplish this by differential privacy, rigorous internal controls, etc). That’s the same claim Google and everyone else is going to make.

Re: Spotify CEO renews attack on Apple after Musk's salvo

#397

Post by etchalon »

root_axis wrote: post #296
dpflan wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, it's interesting. Who are the loudest voices here? Customers of Apple or the the companies deciding to play by Apple's rules to access Apple's customer base? It's going to be a lopsided discussion on HN because of the biases of the users here versus the average non-HN member. What does the average customer want?

> Apple's customer base Interesting way to frame it. The customer belongs to Apple. Far be it for the customer to decide what they want or like, they belong to Apple after all, and if those corporations want access to what's Apple's, they need to pay up. You're not wrong, but imagine a world where the customer didn't actually belong to Apple and the users could decide to play Fornite or shitpost on Twitter if that wa…

I don't understand how the customer wouldn't belong to Apple.

I can't go into McDonald's and order a Whopper. McDonald's owns me, so long as I'm in their store. If I want a Whopper, I have to go to Burger King.

"But Burger King is farther away, and thus, McDonald's has a monopoly on that customer" is a weird argument.

Re: Spotify CEO renews attack on Apple after Musk's salvo

#398

Post by williamscales »

Benjamin_Dobell wrote: post #354
KennyBlanken wrote: post #342

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What? Samsung is the most hostile of manufacturers in this regard. Unlocking the bootloader, installing another bootloader, or running a different kernel burns fuses permanently in the device and renders it unable to use their version of hardware-secured storage, aka "Knox." Kiss some multimedia apps, payment apps, and enterprise security features goodbye...along with a bunch of random features like private mode in t…

Flashing an unsigned (or potentially differently signed) bootloader burns fuses. Sure. However, other manufacturers don't just burn fuses, you specifically need to apply for permission to flash your bootloader e.g. https://www.oneplus.com/support/answer/detail/op588 Samsung at least don't require personal details for you to take control of your device. Sure, you lose access to some multimedia, but don't blame Samsung…

What does “tampered with” mean? Particularly in the context of a device you own?

I would consider a device tampered with if someone besides me (the owner) did something with it, without my authorization. But anything short of that is surely just me using the device. I mean, I have physical possession after all.

Re: Spotify CEO renews attack on Apple after Musk's salvo

#399

Post by hparadiz »

GuB-42 wrote: post #265
hparadiz wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The bootloader in on Samsung Android devices is extremely locked down to prevent rooting. Sideloading is a basic android feature. Ability to root and sideloading are two different but similar issues on the topic of freedom.

My experience is that Samsung devices are quite easy to root. There is that e-fuse thing that disable some features permanently, but to my knowledge, these are mostly intended for corporate devices and you can ignore them for personal use.

With Galaxy phones they are extremely hostile to unsigned flashes to the device. You essentially need to exploit a zero day in the stock rom to get temporary root and then while you have temporary root you flash a new recovery. And then you gotta make sure it doesn't flash the stock recovery back in the next boot by making sure your next reboot goes into the recovery. And then you can flash your custom ROM. I skipped some steps too.

Re: Spotify CEO renews attack on Apple after Musk's salvo

#400

Post by mullingitover »

hamandcheese wrote: post #317
95014_refugee wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is essentially just the typical corporate aversion to taxation. They want to benefit from the infrastructure, but don't want to pay for it. Nothing new here, other than the weird tech bros leaping to defend the behaviour...

> They want to benefit from the infrastructure, but don't want to pay for it. The infrastructure is already paid for. I paid for it when I bought my $1000 iPhone.

That would be a valid point if the phone wasn't vertically integrated with cloud services and ongoing support from the manufacturer.

The terms for access to the app store are based on licensing for the software that's part of the device. I could see a reasonable compromise where you can wipe the iPhone and start from scratch with your own OS/drivers/etc, waive your warranty, and then be free to go nuts installing anything you want from any app store. I just can't imagine anyone being happy spending the thousand bucks purely for the hardware.

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