Spotify CEO renews attack on Apple after Musk's salvo • Hacker News Board

Re: Spotify CEO renews attack on Apple after Musk's salvo

#371

Post by adamwk » Thu, Dec 01, 2022, 4:07 AM UTC

smoldesu wrote: post #186

adamwk wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is Spotify on any of those 3rd party app stores other than Amazon's (which also has a fee)?

Why does it matter? Spotify wants the freedom to set their own margins. Compensating artists fairly starts by kicking out useless middlemen, and Apple plays that role in this instance. Every developer deserves the right to distribute software on their own terms, that's not some extremist or abhorrent ideal to advocate for.

I agree Spotify wants more revenue but I seriously doubt compensating artists is top of mind despite what their CEO says

Re: Spotify CEO renews attack on Apple after Musk's salvo

#372

Post by rootusrootus » Thu, Dec 01, 2022, 4:09 AM UTC

SamuelAdams wrote: post #334

donmcronald wrote: post #5

I want the option to control my devices. I don’t understand the arguments that claim Apple needs to rule the device with an iron fist. What problems does it cause to make the locked down experience the default with the option for me to disable that and take control of the device after I buy it? I want to own my stuff. I want to repair it and I want complete control over it. I think that in 10 years we’ll all have car…

You (and anyone reading this comment) are a rare exception. Users of this site are interested in how tech works. You spend time to understand what it’s doing and make things work for you. And that’s awesome! Personally I’m the same way. But an overwhelming majority of people do not want to fight with or customize their tech. Opening the tech actually tricks them into causing more problems by clicking random pop up’s…

> an overwhelming majority of people do not want to fight with or customize their tech

> while also having a locked down iPhone for the less tech literate?

Your post comes across as snobby. Not to mention demonstrably inaccurate. Someone who doesn't want their phone to be a tinkering device may be the most tech literate person on Hacker News. Not everyone wants every piece of tech they own to require tinkering, they just want it to work and get out of their way, so they can focus their tinkering on something else.

Re: Spotify CEO renews attack on Apple after Musk's salvo

#373

Post by snowwrestler » Thu, Dec 01, 2022, 4:11 AM UTC

dmix wrote: post #320

wpm wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok. But now imagine that using Facebook or TikTok in the browser on your Mac is a terrible, pared down experience, full of banners pushing you to get the app. But the app isn’t on the App Store, where there are rules, it’s on their website. Just follow these steps! Do you not think people can’t follow step by step instructions to do something like that, if they had a very strong reward at the end? It’s not just littl…

I'm sorry... You think Facebook would start a mass campaign to disable the warranty/support contracts of millions of their iPhone users by walking them through a very complicated technical process... To achieve what exactly? Download an app the same person could get using the app store? The media would have a field day at Facebooks expense. Why would Apple even let them on the app store if they did something so stupi…

Facebook already abused the limited side loading available on iPhones to trick teenagers into installing spyware. The media did have a field day, and Apple pulled their enterprise certificate.

https://www.theverge.com/2019/1/30/18203551/apple-facebook-b...

This isn’t even a hypothetical, it really happened. And yet people still have a hard time believing Facebook (and other companies) would abuse iPhone side loading if given a chance. Of course they would!

Re: Spotify CEO renews attack on Apple after Musk's salvo

#374

Post by rootusrootus » Thu, Dec 01, 2022, 4:13 AM UTC

2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote: post #355

endisneigh wrote: post #86

Stop buying Apple if you don't like it. Seriously. At the end of the day all of these companies would do the exact same thing as Apple if they were in Apple's position. The real solution to this is improved functionality of web apps and complete migration to those, then you can be free of the duopoly. Other than using phone specific features, why can't all apps run on your desktop, laptop or elsewhere? I'll never get…

Buying Apple? Musk and Ek are tired of playing Apple's stupid game to be on their platform because if they aren't on their platform they might as well not exist.

> if they aren't on their platform they might as well not exist.

That's a roundabout way of saying that customers have clearly expressed a preference. Especially ones that spend money.

Re: Spotify CEO renews attack on Apple after Musk's salvo

#375

Post by steve76 » Thu, Dec 01, 2022, 4:14 AM UTC

sdfhbdf wrote: post #3

No substance, same arguments repeated from both sides all the time. Seems like a stalemate. I see to ways out for a company that feels it’s getting ripped of by Apple: 1. Don’t publish in App Store, do a web app or encourage your customers to get a different platform device. Not sure which one since Google Play Store AFAIK has the same rules. 2. Charge users +30% more when buying through IAP if same is offered any pl…

No post body was provided.

Re: Spotify CEO renews attack on Apple after Musk's salvo

#376

Post by marricks » Thu, Dec 01, 2022, 4:15 AM UTC

bakugo wrote: post #114

marricks wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The way I see it the users have two crappy options based on business model: 1) Apple's freedom from inspection: they control your device and their ecosystem because they make money off the ecosystem. The take a cut of the phone/computer/watch you buy then anything you buy in their ecosystem because the ecosystem is their product. Your data is (mostly) safe from advertisers because that's not their business. 2) Google…

Great to see Apple users are still deluding themselves into thinking they're not the product despite constant reports of Apple spying on them just like everyone else

The extent really matters. I don't care if Apple tracks App Store clicks or what I (don't) read on Apple News. I would care, a lot, if they tracked my browser history, chats, and email.

Could Apple conceivably be spying on my every move? Well... they really don't need to to make App Store recommendations so I doubt it.

When, and if, ever launches its own web advertising client which they bill as "privacy focused" I'll start being skeptical but until then there's way better things to throw tin foil at.

Re: Spotify CEO renews attack on Apple after Musk's salvo

#377

Post by rootusrootus » Thu, Dec 01, 2022, 4:15 AM UTC

Barrin92 wrote: post #335

endisneigh wrote: post #86

Stop buying Apple if you don't like it. Seriously. At the end of the day all of these companies would do the exact same thing as Apple if they were in Apple's position. The real solution to this is improved functionality of web apps and complete migration to those, then you can be free of the duopoly. Other than using phone specific features, why can't all apps run on your desktop, laptop or elsewhere? I'll never get…

>At the end of the day all of these companies would do the exact same thing as Apple and with that sentence you've just described the exact reason precisely why antitrust legislation is long overdue and whyy your solution doesn't work. Running to an alternative will, in due time, just reproduce the same result. In fact Spotify is itself a walled garden for artists suffering from the same dynamics.

That would probably require redefining antitrust, yes? Neither Apple nor Google hold a monopoly in the phone space. Are they colluding, or just making similar business decisions. Is there a requirement that we subsidize a market entrant that is all about open fields instead of walled gardens?

Re: Spotify CEO renews attack on Apple after Musk's salvo

#378

Post by judge2020 » Thu, Dec 01, 2022, 4:20 AM UTC

wvenable wrote: post #152

judge2020 wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But I see way too many people using Chrome on iOS or the Google App as their main web browser. If it was really about the underlying technology then nobody would download alternative web browsers, but they do, so surely people decide to use these browser apps based on their features like password support, tab design and functionality, etc.

I don't understand your point. All browsers on iOS use the same underlying technology (Webkit) so the only relevant features between iOS browsers is those other features like password support, tab design, etc.

That's entirely my point. People don't use Chrome on desktop because it uses Blink and V8 - they use it because of the UX and UI decisions, and the same goes for Chrome on iOS.

Re: Spotify CEO renews attack on Apple after Musk's salvo

#379

Post by rib3ye » Thu, Dec 01, 2022, 4:28 AM UTC

donmcronald wrote: post #5

I want the option to control my devices. I don’t understand the arguments that claim Apple needs to rule the device with an iron fist. What problems does it cause to make the locked down experience the default with the option for me to disable that and take control of the device after I buy it? I want to own my stuff. I want to repair it and I want complete control over it. I think that in 10 years we’ll all have car…

What does this have to do with the topic of the 30%  tax?

Re: Spotify CEO renews attack on Apple after Musk's salvo

#380

Post by ThePowerOfFuet » Thu, Dec 01, 2022, 4:33 AM UTC

marricks wrote: post #80

donmcronald wrote: post #5

I want the option to control my devices. I don’t understand the arguments that claim Apple needs to rule the device with an iron fist. What problems does it cause to make the locked down experience the default with the option for me to disable that and take control of the device after I buy it? I want to own my stuff. I want to repair it and I want complete control over it. I think that in 10 years we’ll all have car…

The way I see it the users have two crappy options based on business model: 1) Apple's freedom from inspection: they control your device and their ecosystem because they make money off the ecosystem. The take a cut of the phone/computer/watch you buy then anything you buy in their ecosystem because the ecosystem is their product. Your data is (mostly) safe from advertisers because that's not their business. 2) Google…

> 2) Google's device freedom: you can do whatever you want with your device because your are the product. Sure you can load a complete separate system of mail and chat clients and not sign into google, but really, will you?

Typing this from a Pixel running GrapheneOS, and it's a great experience.

So, yeah, I did.