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The last three years of my work will be permanently abandoned

ericlippert.com

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Re: The last three years of my work will be permanently abandoned

#371

Post by jcadam »

ericlippert wrote: post #239
rob74 wrote: post #91

> Speaking of cutting costs, the company is still pouring multiple billions of dollars into vaporware called “the metaverse”. News flash: no one wants to wear VR goggles to spend any time in a digital heaven where the role of God is played by Mark Zuckerberg and you can do anything you can imagine, including “work” and “shop”. You can somehow feel that he has been dying to say this for years, but couldn't while he wa…

I see your point and don't mean to be argumentative, but a couple small corrections. First, the pivot to "meta" was just over a year ago, so it hasn't been quite years. Second, I haven't been shy about sharing my opinion internally, though I haven't been broadcasting it either. The first thing I said in our team group chat when we'd heard this announcement was (context, I am much older than most people on the team) "…

> "I'm old enough to have read Snow Crash the week it came out and IT WAS A DYSTOPIA, why are we building it?"

But at least it was a dystopia where pizza delivery was an exciting business.

Re: The last three years of my work will be permanently abandoned

#372

Post by anonreeeeplor »

bfeynman wrote: post #127
Satam wrote: post #62

Author mentions that his team's work saved "millions" of dollars for Meta every year - let's assume that's $10 million. Meta's operating expenses are over $80 billion annually. That's barely one hundredth of a percent in savings for Meta. I'm sure they were doing interesting work otherwise, but it make sense why the team would be considered for cuts if there weren't any breakthroughs on the horizon.

This news didn't surprise me at all. Academics and research scientists on teams like this are very far removed from driving revenue and understanding the value you provide. It's just as likely that the teams they saved costs for are also hemorrhaging anyway and being shut down or reduced.

I am personally shocked continually at how drastically overvalued seeming engineering is. I read through what he wrote here - Not to be cynical; and I used to be an engineer: but this sounded like a bunch of fluffy B.S.

I used to work at several mega corps. Very overstaffed ones. We had tons of very elite engineers doing god knows what. They always had stories that sounded exactly like this - It’s so complicated you wouldn’t understand!

I believe engineering has become way overvalued relative to what it is worth realistically.

I will give far more credibility to anyone who has built or tried to build and run or manage their own startup or business.

Too many engineers have only ever worked in these environments where they are totally disconnected from reality.

Re: The last three years of my work will be permanently abandoned

#373

Post by fallingknife »

actionfromafar wrote: post #329
fallingknife wrote: post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How, exactly, does building a VR social network harm anyone?

You change the environment where people to some extent live their lives. Stripmalls never hurt anyone either by that token.

People change the environment themselves by choosing that over the alternative. If you don't like the thing that other people chose that's a fair opinion to have, but it's hard to argue that harm was caused by it.

Re: The last three years of my work will be permanently abandoned

#374

Post by cratermoon »

kelnos wrote: post #264
ericlippert wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see your point and don't mean to be argumentative, but a couple small corrections. First, the pivot to "meta" was just over a year ago, so it hasn't been quite years. Second, I haven't been shy about sharing my opinion internally, though I haven't been broadcasting it either. The first thing I said in our team group chat when we'd heard this announcement was (context, I am much older than most people on the team) "…

> Third, this opinion is indeed extremely common internally. It is intensely weird to me that people hold the opinion that their company is building something that is bad for the world, and yet they stay there and continue to help build it. I know that's easy to say as someone not in that situation, but not always easy to do for someone who is. I get that people don't always have a ton of choice about their employmen…

> It is intensely weird to me that people hold the opinion that their company is building something that is bad for the world, and yet they stay there and continue to help build it.

Hoo boy, the old "just take another job" trope. I've got news: First, in this late-stage capitalism neoliberal hell, people have to cling to their jobs for more reasons than anyone can count. Second, where are they going to go? Who is hiring that isn't also doing things that are bad for the world, at a rate that someone with a student loan, a family, a mortgage, and college-bound kids can afford?

Knock it off with the "just get another job" thing and come join the real world.

Re: The last three years of my work will be permanently abandoned

#375

Post by Eisenstein »

cratermoon wrote: post #374
kelnos wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Third, this opinion is indeed extremely common internally. It is intensely weird to me that people hold the opinion that their company is building something that is bad for the world, and yet they stay there and continue to help build it. I know that's easy to say as someone not in that situation, but not always easy to do for someone who is. I get that people don't always have a ton of choice about their employmen…

> It is intensely weird to me that people hold the opinion that their company is building something that is bad for the world, and yet they stay there and continue to help build it. Hoo boy, the old "just take another job" trope. I've got news: First, in this late-stage capitalism neoliberal hell, people have to cling to their jobs for more reasons than anyone can count. Second, where are they going to go? Who is hir…

You know, the 'just get another job' attitude is annoying because of the lack of empathy, but the 'you have no right to talk about principles because I want to be upper-middle-class' attitude is annoying because even though we all rationalize, being aggressive about it to the extent that you denigrate a person for having ideals makes me feel a sort of doomed misanthropy.

Re: The last three years of my work will be permanently abandoned

#376

Post by knodi123 »

brazzledazzle wrote: post #343
dnissley wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh we definitely do -- the shitposting workplace group serves this purpose. Also the private nonmanagers group.

I think a private non-manager group is pretty neat. What happens when an IC gets promoted to manager? Do they get the boot from the group?

Yeah, there's a ceremony where the manager puts a piece of paper with their username in a goblet and drops in a match, and then the non-managers all collectively intone "gone. gone. gone." and turn their backs. It's kind of sad, but the manager is allowed to keep their ceremonial robe as a memento, and there's usually a box of free cookies, so /shrug

Re: The last three years of my work will be permanently abandoned

#377

Post by ekianjo »

kelnos wrote: post #264
ericlippert wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see your point and don't mean to be argumentative, but a couple small corrections. First, the pivot to "meta" was just over a year ago, so it hasn't been quite years. Second, I haven't been shy about sharing my opinion internally, though I haven't been broadcasting it either. The first thing I said in our team group chat when we'd heard this announcement was (context, I am much older than most people on the team) "…

> Third, this opinion is indeed extremely common internally. It is intensely weird to me that people hold the opinion that their company is building something that is bad for the world, and yet they stay there and continue to help build it. I know that's easy to say as someone not in that situation, but not always easy to do for someone who is. I get that people don't always have a ton of choice about their employmen…

> t is intensely weird to me that people hold the opinion that their company is building something that is bad for the world, and yet they stay there and continue to help build it.

Most people work for the pay. Thats why you pay people: to make them work on something they dont necessarily like.

Not everyone needs to be or to act like an activist.

Re: The last three years of my work will be permanently abandoned

#378

Post by Mistletoe »

ericlippert wrote: post #239
rob74 wrote: post #91

> Speaking of cutting costs, the company is still pouring multiple billions of dollars into vaporware called “the metaverse”. News flash: no one wants to wear VR goggles to spend any time in a digital heaven where the role of God is played by Mark Zuckerberg and you can do anything you can imagine, including “work” and “shop”. You can somehow feel that he has been dying to say this for years, but couldn't while he wa…

I see your point and don't mean to be argumentative, but a couple small corrections. First, the pivot to "meta" was just over a year ago, so it hasn't been quite years. Second, I haven't been shy about sharing my opinion internally, though I haven't been broadcasting it either. The first thing I said in our team group chat when we'd heard this announcement was (context, I am much older than most people on the team) "…

"I'm old enough to have read Snow Crash the week it came out and IT WAS A DYSTOPIA, why are we building it?"

This is such an incredible quote, I love it. And I love that you said it in your group chat. I wish more people in tech could see this forest from within the trees.

Re: The last three years of my work will be permanently abandoned

#379

Post by aboodman »

I am late to this thread, and I don't know if you'll see this eric, but you've been a sort of hero of mine for a long time and I'm sad both on your behalf and the worlds' that your work is being abandoned. I followed your blog waaay back in msft days, when I was just getting started, and you were a small part of why I applied to Microsoft, got into .net, and became the programmer I am.

You've build a large number of wonderful things and I wish we could have all experienced the latest.

I hope after a long rest you find your way back to software and perhaps share what you were working on in some other way.

Re: The last three years of my work will be permanently abandoned

#380

Post by marcosdumay »

alisonatwork wrote: post #345
kelnos wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Third, this opinion is indeed extremely common internally. It is intensely weird to me that people hold the opinion that their company is building something that is bad for the world, and yet they stay there and continue to help build it. I know that's easy to say as someone not in that situation, but not always easy to do for someone who is. I get that people don't always have a ton of choice about their employmen…

I've often wondered this, especially when I quit a company out of principle, expecting that I wouldn't be the only one. But even when an entire department quits en masse, it turns out that none of us are ever as important as we thought we were. The guys on the top who make the real decisions are on the top because they are experts at driving their vision forward regardless of whatever happens underneath or around the…

> The guys on the top who make the real decisions are on the top because they are experts at driving their vision forward regardless of whatever happens underneath or around them.

That's a funny way to say "rich".

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