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The last three years of my work will be permanently abandoned

ericlippert.com

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Re: The last three years of my work will be permanently abandoned

#301

Post by projectazorian »

Karrot_Kream wrote: post #223
leksak wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Too much cynisism certainly sounds bad, but cynisism in and of itself shouldn't necessarily be problematic. Eskewing it entirely to always opt for optimism is inherently dishonest and does not acknowledge that sometimes having a negative response is fair and justified. And not allowing that as part of company culture is stifling. Do you think people's cynisism about Google has made you miss out on a positive opportun…

Some of this is quibbling about definitions in my head at least. Fundamentally I like working in environments where folks are optimistic but realistic, keenly aware of how effortless failure is. Discussing both failure and success should be allowed and encouraged, but constantly looking at the negative or opining about how an individual can't change anything in the organization doesn't feel healthy to me. Most Google…

> Most Googlers I've talked to view the company as a large, corporate politics chess game where engineers are the pawns.

Are they wrong?

Re: The last three years of my work will be permanently abandoned

#302

Post by ericlippert »

mikebenfield wrote: post #254
woah wrote: post #81

> Speaking of cutting costs, the company is still pouring multiple billions of dollars into vaporware called “the metaverse”. News flash: no one wants to wear VR goggles to spend any time in a digital heaven where the role of God is played by Mark Zuckerberg and you can do anything you can imagine, including “work” and “shop”. Sounds like this guy was totally opposed to the company's new focus, to the point of descri…

I have no data to back this up, but if I had to bet I’d guess that the large majority of Meta employees - along with shareholders - are also strongly opposed to the company’s new focus.

I do have data to back this up for employees. You'd win that bet. Shareholders, I have no data on that.

Re: The last three years of my work will be permanently abandoned

#303

Post by ljw1004 »

robotresearcher wrote: post #233
dnissley wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You can somehow feel that he has been dying to say this for years, but couldn't while he was still working for Meta... It's a pretty common sentiment in my experience here, de rigueur even. Expressing it in the way he does here is definitely frowned upon though -- one of the most interesting cultural traits I've noticed that Meta has fostered is an awareness and avoidance of cynicism. When people comment internally…

I felt this way about the entire United States when I moved here from Europe. The standard stance in the UK is cynical, dry, and too-cool-for-school. Try-hards are despised. The US was different and very refreshing. Enthusiasm and optimism can be expressed without embarrassment, and having a too-frequently-cynical stance is looked down on. I felt a step change again moving from academia to industry, but perhaps it go…

I felt exactly the same. Silicon valley attitude "woah dude that's awesome". UK fenland attitude "don't get your hopes up and know your place".

Re: The last three years of my work will be permanently abandoned

#304

Post by [deleted] »

ericlippert wrote: post #239
rob74 wrote: post #91

> Speaking of cutting costs, the company is still pouring multiple billions of dollars into vaporware called “the metaverse”. News flash: no one wants to wear VR goggles to spend any time in a digital heaven where the role of God is played by Mark Zuckerberg and you can do anything you can imagine, including “work” and “shop”. You can somehow feel that he has been dying to say this for years, but couldn't while he wa…

I see your point and don't mean to be argumentative, but a couple small corrections. First, the pivot to "meta" was just over a year ago, so it hasn't been quite years. Second, I haven't been shy about sharing my opinion internally, though I haven't been broadcasting it either. The first thing I said in our team group chat when we'd heard this announcement was (context, I am much older than most people on the team) "…

[deleted]

Re: The last three years of my work will be permanently abandoned

#305

Post by ericlippert »

woah wrote: post #118
blitz_skull wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just staring at facts on paper... It sounds like Facebook has no interest in cutting costs since they cut a team that reduced the cost of every single team they interacted with. By a large multiple of whatever it cost to have that team employed. Regardless of your take on the "Metaverse", it's clear that this was in fact, not the best thing for everyone.

How much money did it save? How much was this in savings after paying their salaries? Article doesn't say. If they were breaking even, or barely "profitable", then maybe it wasn't worth the management overhead, especially with a team lead vehemently opposed to the company's focus.

We were a team of mathematicians focused on cost savings and improving decisions. We know how to subtract costs from benefits.

I was not the lead.

A team focused on helping the company make better decisions is all the more necessary when attempting a pivot.

Re: The last three years of my work will be permanently abandoned

#306

Post by projectazorian »

TremendousJudge wrote: post #173
MattGaiser wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> no one wants to wear VR goggles I would be curious how many people are willing to wear VR goggles for any amount of time. I spend easily 10-12 hours a day at my computer. I am absolutely someone who is happy working, socializing, playing, and learning all at the same desk. But I can't wear those goggles for even 2 hours. Are there people who can wear them for 12?

Well, not that I'm in favor of the idea, but probably if you're used to wearing VR goggles since childhood (the same way we are with regular screens) spending 12 hours a day with them on may be just fine.

Can’t wait to find out about all the new types of repetitive strain injury caused by doing this for decades on end!

Re: The last three years of my work will be permanently abandoned

#307

Post by colineartheta »

daveguy wrote: post #139
colineartheta wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How were you able to acquire a PhD without a publication?

> post-PhD

> I’ve never filed a patent, written a publication, nor given a talk.

When written in a single sentence, it implies that you have never written a publication, post- or pre- or during- a PhD.

I will rephrase my question: have you, or have you not, written a publication?

Re: The last three years of my work will be permanently abandoned

#308

Post by AtlasBarfed »

kelnos wrote: post #264
ericlippert wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see your point and don't mean to be argumentative, but a couple small corrections. First, the pivot to "meta" was just over a year ago, so it hasn't been quite years. Second, I haven't been shy about sharing my opinion internally, though I haven't been broadcasting it either. The first thing I said in our team group chat when we'd heard this announcement was (context, I am much older than most people on the team) "…

> Third, this opinion is indeed extremely common internally. It is intensely weird to me that people hold the opinion that their company is building something that is bad for the world, and yet they stay there and continue to help build it. I know that's easy to say as someone not in that situation, but not always easy to do for someone who is. I get that people don't always have a ton of choice about their employmen…

Case 1) FBWorker thinks its a boondoggle, but is neutral on Facebook, and can read the political tea leaves. Your basic mercenary corporate footsoldier. So stay and get FAANGpaid.

Case 2) FBWorker drinks koolaid (mabye because they cant keep FAANGpaid from forming their identity). Probably noob out of college or someone that just wants FAANG on the resume. Stay and build it. Probably not a lot of talent. And get FAANGpaid.

Case 3) FBWorker generally hates Facebook, maybe a holdover from pre-monetization FB days, why stop your enemy from making a huge mistake? Wait, AND you get FAANGpaid?

Case 4) FBWorker who is principled moralist who once believed they could change the world for the better.

One of the reasons Facebook is in trouble, especially if they actually think the Meta pivot is key, is that almost all their employees are Case 1 or Case 3.

Case 4 quit long ago or doesn't apply anymore.

The question is, is there even a semblance of a core of Case 2 in facebook? Doubt it.

So Marky Z is like a dictator now. Yeah he's top dog of his realm, but motivating people to any fundamental degree isn't possible. Money only goes so far. The organization has purged all the truly motivated talent.

Re: The last three years of my work will be permanently abandoned

#309

Post by djur »

alpha_squared wrote: post #283
wilsonnb3 wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

VR goggles are going to continue getting lighter, smaller, and more comfortable to wear. Soon enough they will be more comparable to glasses than goggles and plenty of people wear glasses for 12-16 hours a day.

Maybe I'm in a bubble, but most people I know who wear glasses don't actually enjoy doing so and would really rather not if they can avoid it. VR would have to be demonstrably superior to any alternative to justify wearing it for that long even if it was as light as a feather.

I've worn glasses since I was a small child and that's not my experience at all. It's comparable to wearing clothes, except they cost me less and are quicker and easier to clean and maintain. I've occasionally had uncomfortable glasses with materials that my skin reacted to, but that's easy to resolve. And I've occasionally lost or damaged a pair of glasses, and that's a hassle, but not as much as losing your wallet or keys. On any given day I don't consciously think about my glasses at all.

Re: The last three years of my work will be permanently abandoned

#310

Post by dohdhdaa »

fallingknife wrote: post #298
kelnos wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but you trying to do that won't hurt anyone (well, aside from the bank account of the person paying you, but that's on them). Building a dystopian VR-based social network hurts a lot more people. I would hope we have better ethics than to work on things that harm others for truckloads of money. Then again, a lot of people still work for Meta (and Twitter, and...), so I guess ethics is pretty lacking.

How, exactly, does building a VR social network harm anyone?

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