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Estonia saved its citizens 820 years by moving public services online

karlsnotes.com

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Re: Estonia saved its citizens 820 years by moving public services online

#191

Post by piva00 »

notch656a wrote: post #187
chongli wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

a deliberate attempt to undermine confidence in government Yes. The strategy is known as "starve the beast" [1] and it is pursued with ferocious determination by its proponents. The goal is to create some kind of minimal government libertarian paradise. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starve_the_beast

I thought starve the beast was where non-wartime federal spending as a percent of GDP increased multiple times over the past 100 year period. The beast to be starved being the individual citizen and businesses. Yes you can see, the beast has been horribly starved. https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/FYONGDA188S

Looking at general spending doesn't tell you absolutely anything where the spending is going to and doesn't enable any kind of cost-benefit analysis. It's a meaningless metric to derive any argument from.

Spending on services that are multipliers of productivity is very different than spending on the military, for example. Spending on public services that improves citizens' life like healthcare, parks, schools, culture, easiness of bureaucracy (e.g.: permits for construction, licencing of activities, etc.) is a completely different beast than spending on politicians benefits, military drills, and so on.

Re: Estonia saved its citizens 820 years by moving public services online

#192

Post by andix »

skeletal88 wrote: post #179
andix wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That sounds scary.

Can you explain why? Why would having every government department, hospital, doctors/dentists office keep your data separately, probably in some unsecured excel file or whatever? When we have one registry for everything, they can keep it secure by having some proper security guys design and audit it, we can see who has accessed my data and when, etc. If a hospital would keep your health records in their own system th…

Because I don’t want them to connect all the data without my consent. I don’t want single government employees to have access to all my data at once.

Re: Estonia saved its citizens 820 years by moving public services online

#193

Post by xboxnolifes »

rospaya wrote: post #100
dottedmag wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've got a driver's license in another country, and it's still up for renewal every 5 years.

Most countries treat driver's licences seriously, not like the US. It takes months of classes and driving hours, exams and tests to get one where I live. Renewals mean getting your eyes checked, no photos etc.

Sounds exactly the same as the US. The question is: how difficult are the exams and tests? In the US, the written exams are 80% irrelevant information that you pass by wrought memorization right before, and the driving test is trivial (parallel park, left turn, k-turn, right turn back to start).

At least that was my experience in New Jersey.

Re: Estonia saved its citizens 820 years by moving public services online

#194

Post by piva00 »

tablespoon wrote: post #190
Gud wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To play devils advocate - sometimes the system itself is not just broken, it’s completely wrong! Where I’m from(Sweden) I can’t imagine going to the DMV even for just a second. So asking for better staffing at the service counters at the DMV sounds silly to me

> To play devils advocate - sometimes the system itself is not just broken, it’s completely wrong! Where I’m from(Sweden) I can’t imagine going to the DMV even for just a second. So asking for better staffing at the service counters at the DMV sounds silly to me Do you not have driving tests in Sweden? Does Sweden allow residents to submit any random picture of their choice for their drivers license? As an American,…

Any time I had to go to Traffikverket (equivalent to the DMV), Skatteverket (tax agency, your IRS) or Polisen (the police, to get passports or national IDs) which are the only 3 agencies that I had ever to interact with to get pictures collected from, I book an appointment online for a time slot; I show up 10-15 min before my scheduled time and wait for the call for my booking; Go in, talk to someone, take pictures/collect fingerprints and get out.

It's very, very easy.

Re: Estonia saved its citizens 820 years by moving public services online

#195

Post by notch656a »

piva00 wrote: post #191
notch656a wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought starve the beast was where non-wartime federal spending as a percent of GDP increased multiple times over the past 100 year period. The beast to be starved being the individual citizen and businesses. Yes you can see, the beast has been horribly starved. https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/FYONGDA188S

Looking at general spending doesn't tell you absolutely anything where the spending is going to and doesn't enable any kind of cost-benefit analysis. It's a meaningless metric to derive any argument from. Spending on services that are multipliers of productivity is very different than spending on the military, for example. Spending on public services that improves citizens' life like healthcare, parks, schools, cultu…

No post body was provided.

Re: Estonia saved its citizens 820 years by moving public services online

#196

Post by piva00 »

notch656a wrote: post #195
piva00 wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Looking at general spending doesn't tell you absolutely anything where the spending is going to and doesn't enable any kind of cost-benefit analysis. It's a meaningless metric to derive any argument from. Spending on services that are multipliers of productivity is very different than spending on the military, for example. Spending on public services that improves citizens' life like healthcare, parks, schools, cultu…

Quoted post unavailable.

Starve the beast is about starving specific services with the goal of dismantling them by causing a negative sentiment in the public. Like what the Tories are doing to the NHS, you start dismantling it by underfunding the service, which forces cost-cutting (usually meaning diminished staff or changes to regulations on benefits, working hours, etc.).

Don't really understand your deflection and tone, it was completely uncalled for and doesn't at all address the point of my comment. Please, don't do that here on HN, I come here to foster intelligent and interesting discussions, not to read mindless hot takes and deflections.

Re: Estonia saved its citizens 820 years by moving public services online

#197

Post by Zanfa »

chungy wrote: post #46

Online voting is a terrible idea rife with flaws, intentional and unintentional. In-person paper voting is the only reasonable system.

While online voting isn’t perfect, in-person paper ballots aren’t magic. Estonians had some 60-odd years of paper-only voting experience under the Soviet Union, didn’t make one bit of difference when it came to the complete fabrication of the results.

Re: Estonia saved its citizens 820 years by moving public services online

#198

Post by piva00 »

nashashmi wrote: post #157
ryukafalz wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd go the other way; we really should require retesting for driver's license renewals. New Jersey for example just enacted a "safe passing" law earlier this year in an attempt to make bicyclists and pedestrians safer. But existing drivers will never have to demonstrate that they know this because we never retest people after they get their license once.

Then we should have licenses for bicyclists too! The reason we have licenses (aka controls on who can drive cars) is to curb dangerous and irresponsible driving, mark drivers for driving egregiously, and remove people or not allow drivers on the road when they don't have the motor skills to navigate a vehicle on the road. Knowing the rules is secondary, if not tertiary. Otherwise bicyclists should also have licenses…

Rules apply to them but they aren't driving a 2-3 ton hunk of metal that's basically a murder machine. Their danger to other road users is much, much lower than from anything self-propelled just due to physics.

Here in Sweden it doesn't matter how much right of way you have, if you are driving a car you're responsible for the safety of others in the road, even more if they're a pedestrian or cyclist. It's not excuse that a pedestrian was jaywalking or whatever bizarre law to limit access to the road for people you got in the US, you are ultimately responsible for the safety of other users. You're drilled and tested on that in your driving lessons and exams, you will fail your driving test if you fail to yield for a pedestrian at any moment, even if it was just briefly not pressing the brake pedal way before another road user is in danger.

This is a false equivalence, yes, the road is shared and has rules but one user of the road is safely driving on tons of metal powered by hundreds of horsepower, the other is pedaling a bike.

Degree and level matter. Don't hold such a black-and-white view of the world, it's reductionist and not very smart.

Re: Estonia saved its citizens 820 years by moving public services online

#199

Post by [deleted] »

piva00 wrote: post #196
notch656a wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

Starve the beast is about starving specific services with the goal of dismantling them by causing a negative sentiment in the public. Like what the Tories are doing to the NHS, you start dismantling it by underfunding the service, which forces cost-cutting (usually meaning diminished staff or changes to regulations on benefits, working hours, etc.). Don't really understand your deflection and tone, it was completely…

[deleted]

Re: Estonia saved its citizens 820 years by moving public services online

#200

Post by piva00 »

[deleted] wrote: post #199
piva00 wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Starve the beast is about starving specific services with the goal of dismantling them by causing a negative sentiment in the public. Like what the Tories are doing to the NHS, you start dismantling it by underfunding the service, which forces cost-cutting (usually meaning diminished staff or changes to regulations on benefits, working hours, etc.). Don't really understand your deflection and tone, it was completely…

[deleted]

No post body was provided.
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