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Estonia saved its citizens 820 years by moving public services online

karlsnotes.com

141–150 of 230 posts

Re: Estonia saved its citizens 820 years by moving public services online

#141
post #68

Time wasted filling in forms and talking to service staff should really be tracked and associated with the business or government agency, then it's possible to actually assign a "bureaucracy/red-tape tax" based on the hours they waste for people using the service. Without externalizing the cost of all the time wasted, it's just too easy to push time-costs on to the consumers/citizens. It's already a huge problem, and…

Waiting for Germany to do this. We'll save few thousand years by doing so

Re: Estonia saved its citizens 820 years by moving public services online

#143

I'm in Canada and all I can think of is how my Mom, uncles, other older relatives do not have a computer. They have no interest in anything on a computer and have never touched one. You could put one in front of them powered on, logged in, web browser open, and they'd have no clue how to operate it to enter info. We had a hurricane here and Mom applied to the Red Cross for disaster relief. She got a PIN for her onlin…

It's a chicken-and-egg situation. Estonia has a much higher than average number of elderly using such online services. If you for any reason don't want to, you can still visit a government office in person to do your business.

My 90 year old grandfather is doing lots of stuff online, needs help with the computer occasionally, but otherwise is doing ok.

Well.. he finished the Technical University with cum laude in mechanics, that maybe helps.

Re: Estonia saved its citizens 820 years by moving public services online

#144
post #68

Time wasted filling in forms and talking to service staff should really be tracked and associated with the business or government agency, then it's possible to actually assign a "bureaucracy/red-tape tax" based on the hours they waste for people using the service. Without externalizing the cost of all the time wasted, it's just too easy to push time-costs on to the consumers/citizens. It's already a huge problem, and…

> Time wasted filling in forms and talking to service staff should really be tracked and associated with the business or government agency Isn't there a US law on this? The Paperwork Reduction Act?

Only for the federal government, and as far as I can tell only for "regular people" forms. I.e. if you fill out an NSF proposal or want to drill an oil well or fill out Form D for a stock sale the forms don't seem to include any estimates.

I know the time required to fill out an NSF proposal is "how long is a piece of string" but parts of it (some of the financial portions) are as boilerplate as an IRS tax form.

Re: Estonia saved its citizens 820 years by moving public services online

#145
Much government interaction in the US (at all levels- federal, state, local, court) is ultimately about revenue.

Adopting a single, simple (in terms of complexity) revenue model per polity would eliminate much interaction. For example a 20% flat income tax with a $25000 deduction would allow the IRS to pre-fill your return on a post card. Eliminating “fines as a revenue stream” would dramatically reduce local court and LE interactions. Reducing permitting, etc.

Not only would the citizen experience improve but we would also need less government resources.

Of course, there are reasons why we do all these things, but we rarely if ever revisit implemented government programs to see if they are meeting their goals and if their cost exceeds their benefit.

Given that, I much more support “less government” rather than “the same amount of government but most of it online”.

Re: Estonia saved its citizens 820 years by moving public services online

#146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd go the other way; we really should require retesting for driver's license renewals. New Jersey for example just enacted a "safe passing" law earlier this year in an attempt to make bicyclists and pedestrians safer. But existing drivers will never have to demonstrate that they know this because we never retest people after they get their license once.

It's usually an equity issue, or championed as such by equity groups. America is so car dependent that for folks at the margins failing a driving test is the equivalent of losing your job. That's why DL renewals almost rarely require any re-testing and never require demonstrating driving skills.

> failing a driving test is the equivalent of

Devil's advocate: Maybe you shouldn't be driving, if you might fail a driving test. Being tested on this should be a complete non-issue for anyone with a few years of real world driving experience.

Re: Estonia saved its citizens 820 years by moving public services online

#147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hitting pedestrians also poses issues for folks at the margins, yet we don't seek to educate those people on how to avoid this potentially life destroying situation.

I think you would be hard pressed to find someone currently living with a license that got it at a time where it was OK to will-nilly hit pedestrians.

I bet I can find plenty of people who have a licence, but if retested now would fail -- which suggests they now can't be trusted not to willy-nilly hit pedestrians.

Re: Estonia saved its citizens 820 years by moving public services online

#148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even with the same amount of work or service provided, under-staffing absolutely consumes and destroys peoples productivity. What an awful waste it is to take the morning off work to go somewhere like the DMV, wait forever in line and see half the service counters empty. Sure, the government saved on some staff salary but society lost more in productivity.

I bet you USAA's Insurance run DMV would be a lot more efficient and have good customer service, but hey, we don't want any Ayn Rands around here

How anyone alive today can think that is beyond me. Everytime I call anything these days I get 3 minutes of disclaimers about why I should use their website or app instead and a pre-recorded sob story about being really busy etc etc just to try and break me before I even get into a queue to be connected to someone. 2022 is a dehumanising time to be alive and just get the most basic shit done.

Re: Estonia saved its citizens 820 years by moving public services online

#149
post #68

Time wasted filling in forms and talking to service staff should really be tracked and associated with the business or government agency, then it's possible to actually assign a "bureaucracy/red-tape tax" based on the hours they waste for people using the service. Without externalizing the cost of all the time wasted, it's just too easy to push time-costs on to the consumers/citizens. It's already a huge problem, and…

Even with the same amount of work or service provided, under-staffing absolutely consumes and destroys peoples productivity. What an awful waste it is to take the morning off work to go somewhere like the DMV, wait forever in line and see half the service counters empty. Sure, the government saved on some staff salary but society lost more in productivity.

And then those empty counters and slow service are used as evidence that the government is incompetent and should have its budget reduced further. It's a vicious cycle and I am confident the reduced service is a deliberate attempt to undermine confidence in government.

See also: bans on common-sense measures like including sales tax in price tags, making it easier to pay income taxes.

Re: Estonia saved its citizens 820 years by moving public services online

#150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even with the same amount of work or service provided, under-staffing absolutely consumes and destroys peoples productivity. What an awful waste it is to take the morning off work to go somewhere like the DMV, wait forever in line and see half the service counters empty. Sure, the government saved on some staff salary but society lost more in productivity.

I bet you USAA's Insurance run DMV would be a lot more efficient and have good customer service, but hey, we don't want any Ayn Rands around here

Here in British Columbia, Canada, our equivalent of the DMV is run by a Crown Corporation, ICBC. I've never had a problem with the wait times. (Mind you, they generally require you to pre-reserve a general timeslot to come in; so, like a restaurant, they can just say they're full for a given half-hour and push people to coming in earlier/later. That by itself fixes a lot of the issues around wait times.)
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