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The persistent and pervasive impact of bullying in childhood and adolescence

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

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Re: The persistent and pervasive impact of bullying in childhood and adolescence

#131

Post by yamtaddle »

myth_drannon wrote: post #66
granshaw wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not sure if there’s data/studies on this, but I feel that bullying is a bigger problem in the US than in eg Europe and Asia. If so, would like to see more discussion on why that is and how we could improve things by comparing

I came to similar conclusion. My children go to an elementary school in Canada and there is bullying even in good schools. The things that these little kids do is incomprehensible to me. I went to elementary school in USSR and I never saw what my children experience in Canada(at least I don't remember it, but I do know that the schools in USSR had bullying issues with teenagers). Is it because children have too much…

Dunno about Canada, but in the US schools have very limited options for dealing with problem kids, and class sizes are way bigger than they'd be if we really wanted every kid to have a great education (we would be aiming for about half what they are now, in that case)—more social problems is one consequence of that.

If we could "sacrifice" the top ~10% most-disruptive students—just keep them out of the ordinary classrooms—it'd improve everyone else's experience and ultimate educational attainment immensely. My wife used to be a teacher and days when the right couple kids both happened to be sick, all the lessons got done faster than the time she'd allotted, giving time to cover bonus material, and she said you could just feel how much more relaxed and jovial the atmosphere was, and could see it on the kids' faces. Consider how much benefit it would convey if that were every day and those effects could compound over years. First person who figures out a way to do that that doesn't condemn the 10%ers who actually have a chance of reforming, and that's palatable to constituents, will have done more for US education than anyone else has in a century, probably.

Re: The persistent and pervasive impact of bullying in childhood and adolescence

#132

Post by thegrimmest »

soco wrote: post #128
thegrimmest wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Learning how to respond to antisocial behaviour by a peer, and being able to resolve conflict independently, are two very important skills that it's critical to learn. Being seen as someone who needs adult help to resolve peer conflict is socially disastrous for young people. We do children no favours by intervening in this developmental process.

As we all read stories about bullied kids, or even this study above, not having help to resolve peer conflict isn't especially useful to kids' development either. So, how exactly should they handle it by themselves? Gang up? Outgun the bullies? I'm sorry but I can't even imagine a good way, any good way, how a bullied nerd kid can get out of bullying by themselves.

My understanding is as follows:

1) If you're roughly evenly matched, you should fight

2) If you're not, your peers should intervene - "pick on someone your own size"

3) If this doesn't work, escalate to older peers

4) If that doesn't work, escalate to adults

This relies on children being taught and encouraged to intervene in unfair conflict, which the research indicates they are naturally inclined to do.

Re: The persistent and pervasive impact of bullying in childhood and adolescence

#133

Post by progrus »

My parents basically said “If you keep getting bullied, assault the bully, try to draw blood, and we’ll take you out for ice cream if you get suspended.”

Highly recommended for any parents of boys out there - it is the best way to address this problem.

Re: The persistent and pervasive impact of bullying in childhood and adolescence

#134

Post by [deleted] »

blue039 wrote: post #38

I was bullied pretty severely as a kid. So bad in fact I was put on medication just to deal with it. I was a weaker kid when I was younger owing to the fact I was sick a lot. In America there is a concept of "zero tolerance" that keeps the bullied compliant and the bullies in charge. It was not until I started to get very violent that the bullying stopped. I would fight at a moments notice even sometimes in classroom…

[deleted]

Re: The persistent and pervasive impact of bullying in childhood and adolescence

#135

Post by Dudeman112 »

thegrimmest wrote: post #94
anonym29 wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rough play is voluntary, being a victim of bullying isn't. I say this as someone who engaged in rough play, got bullied, and was a bully, at different times.

Learning how to respond to antisocial behaviour by a peer, and being able to resolve conflict independently, are two very important skills that it's critical to learn. Being seen as someone who needs adult help to resolve peer conflict is socially disastrous for young people. We do children no favours by intervening in this developmental process.

>being able to resolve conflict, independently

A shame sometimes the best way to resolve a conflict is eye gouging the aggressor before they permanently break a part of your body

The thing that stuck with me the most by getting the "resolve your conflicts by yourself" treatment was that no matter how much someone is being a piece of shit, the only one you can count on is yourself

Everyone else will watch as you break, and only intervene if you fight back. And punishment is only ever dished out in equal measures between aggressor and victim

Noticing that was probably the start of considering people to be rotten by default, reasons are needed to assume someone isn't

Re: The persistent and pervasive impact of bullying in childhood and adolescence

#136

Post by kneebonian »

conductr wrote: post #109
kneebonian wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was bullied quite a bit in school, now my boys are starting school and I have them enrolled in BJJ, and the first time my kids comes home upset because someone was picking on him I'll tell him to put that kid in guard and don't let go until the teachers physical remove him.

What age did you start them with BJJ? I've been considering for my 4 year old but not sure if that's too early. It seems too early to tell him to punch the bully in the face (what I did as a kid) but I like the idea of equipping him with the ability to subdue a bully until an adult can take control.

So the gym I train at (they grabbed me after I saw my kids doing it) has a rule that they need to be at least 3 and potty trained, so our youngest started a little bit ago and is more working on the skill of listening and paying attention than some of the techniques but my 5 yo is learning some good stuff and is soon going to move from the young children's class to the youth class where the emphasis moves from holding still and paying attention to actual BJJ.

So I'd say 4 is a good age to start, if you need to find a good gym I'd recommend going over to old.reddit.com/r/bjj and asking for advice on there, you'll probably get some good advice.

Also it makes wrestling with the kids way more fun when they try and practice their BJJ at the same time.

Re: The persistent and pervasive impact of bullying in childhood and adolescence

#137

Post by soco »

thegrimmest wrote: post #132
soco wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As we all read stories about bullied kids, or even this study above, not having help to resolve peer conflict isn't especially useful to kids' development either. So, how exactly should they handle it by themselves? Gang up? Outgun the bullies? I'm sorry but I can't even imagine a good way, any good way, how a bullied nerd kid can get out of bullying by themselves.

My understanding is as follows: 1) If you're roughly evenly matched, you should fight 2) If you're not, your peers should intervene - "pick on someone your own size" 3) If this doesn't work, escalate to older peers 4) If that doesn't work, escalate to adults This relies on children being taught and encouraged to intervene in unfair conflict, which the research indicates they are naturally inclined to do.

So basically you advocate not only educating the own kid, but also educating their peers to intervene, and also educating the older ones to police the area, and educating the adults in the end. Do you really think this is a realistic policy, over the lifetime of your school kid? In an ideal world, no idea, but in this real world Id say zero chance. However I can tell you how it works around here (Switzerland, by no means perfect either) where school personal will usually intervene - and somehow the bullied kids manage to learn their social skills as well. Yes we might be apes but even among apes the social structures are so different that the comparison is mostly meaningless.

Re: The persistent and pervasive impact of bullying in childhood and adolescence

#138

Post by civopsec »

scythe wrote: post #108
HPsquared wrote: post #7

Reminder that this study is only showing a correlation. It could also be the well-known effect that "weaker" (physically or mentally) people are more likely to be bullied. The way to test causation is to have a "control" group with normal environmental bullying levels, and a second group which is otherwise identical to the first, randomly targeted by the scientists for extra bullying. This would of course be unethica…

This isn't a study, it's a review of studies. You will also see this: >Establishing temporal priority – what come first, bullying victimisation or poor mental health – is an essential first step. Indeed, one important alternative hypothesis that must be ruled out is that early mental health symptoms account for both an increased risk for being targeted by bullying behaviours and also for later psychopathology. Findin…

Nah, people aren’t interested in the studies anymore after they get to do their correlation-not-causation mic-drop.

Re: The persistent and pervasive impact of bullying in childhood and adolescence

#139

Post by thegrimmest »

soco wrote: post #137
thegrimmest wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My understanding is as follows: 1) If you're roughly evenly matched, you should fight 2) If you're not, your peers should intervene - "pick on someone your own size" 3) If this doesn't work, escalate to older peers 4) If that doesn't work, escalate to adults This relies on children being taught and encouraged to intervene in unfair conflict, which the research indicates they are naturally inclined to do.

So basically you advocate not only educating the own kid, but also educating their peers to intervene, and also educating the older ones to police the area, and educating the adults in the end. Do you really think this is a realistic policy, over the lifetime of your school kid? In an ideal world, no idea, but in this real world Id say zero chance. However I can tell you how it works around here (Switzerland, by no m…

This was basically how things have worked and continue to work in (particularly rural) areas where policymaking is lacking and people are left to their own devices. "Bullied" kids seek help from their immediate peers, from their/their peers older siblings, and from adults, roughly in that order. Parents typically do not hesitate to suggest aggressive escalation as a conflict resolution strategy. This strategy is often applied successfully.

I'm suggesting that the current "zero tolerance" approach practiced in North America does more harm than good by halting this process before it can resolve conflict - thus harming both the bullied and the bully.

Re: The persistent and pervasive impact of bullying in childhood and adolescence

#140

Post by mcguire »

thegrimmest wrote: post #94
anonym29 wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rough play is voluntary, being a victim of bullying isn't. I say this as someone who engaged in rough play, got bullied, and was a bully, at different times.

Learning how to respond to antisocial behaviour by a peer, and being able to resolve conflict independently, are two very important skills that it's critical to learn. Being seen as someone who needs adult help to resolve peer conflict is socially disastrous for young people. We do children no favours by intervening in this developmental process.

Problem: "Existing research indicates that (a) being bullied in childhood is associated with distress and symptoms of mental health problems...; (b) the consequences of childhood bullying victimisation can persist up to midlife and, in addition to mental health, can impact physical and socioeconomic outcomes."

Solution: Let 'em work it out themselves.

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