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Estonia saved its citizens 820 years by moving public services online

karlsnotes.com

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Re: Estonia saved its citizens 820 years by moving public services online

#31

Post by ElKrist »

rcarr wrote: post #8

Until there's a solar flare and instead it's just cost them 1640 years. Or a catastrophic computer virus. Or any number of black swan disaster scenarios. I'm a tech guy and I do think that this is good news. I just hope that the people in charge of designing these systems have also thought about what happens if these systems catastrophically fail. And that measuring things like '820 years saved' are only really claim…

Any modern society is relying on digital supports for most of its administration. Estonia is just proposing more "frontends" to its citizens. Not all of them decide to use it btw (article mentions 46.9% of people use online voting)

So if we're talking about "black swan disaster scenarios" or "catastrophic computer virus", I don't see any difference between Estonia and other countries.

Re: Estonia saved its citizens 820 years by moving public services online

#32

Post by giantg2 »

alberth wrote: post #12

Homeless / Underprivelleged? How does moving things online work for those in poor economic conditions since they might not have online access (no smart phone, etc).

I think this just adds the option and doesn't eliminate the in-person version.

Re: Estonia saved its citizens 820 years by moving public services online

#33

Post by eropple »

jeffbee wrote: post #13
Reason077 wrote: post #11

I wonder how many years the US could save its citizens by modernizing and digitizing the IRS, DMV, etc. Tens of thousands? Hundreds of thousands?

I recently discovered that the U.S. Social Security Administration has business hours ... for their website. They operate a website that is closed at night and on weekends. One is hard-pressed to imagine the level of IT dysfunction necessary to reach this point.

I investigated that once, and I don't think it's IT dysfunction in that case. My understanding (because I found this odd as well) is that it's because the support load for that site is so high, and the likelihood of abandoned processes without support so high, that the best solution they had at whatever point in time they instituted that was business-hours operation.

Re: Estonia saved its citizens 820 years by moving public services online

#34

Post by rcarr »

giantg2 wrote: post #23
rcarr wrote: post #8

Until there's a solar flare and instead it's just cost them 1640 years. Or a catastrophic computer virus. Or any number of black swan disaster scenarios. I'm a tech guy and I do think that this is good news. I just hope that the people in charge of designing these systems have also thought about what happens if these systems catastrophically fail. And that measuring things like '820 years saved' are only really claim…

My thought is that adversarial state actors are the biggest threat. Didn't Russia interfere with some of their services at one point?

Yes, considering they're on the doorstep of Russia and Belarus this is a fairly likely scenario. If their power utilities were targeted the way Ukraine's have been how many of these systems are still going to be able to run? That said if you've imposed martial law and men aren't allowed to leave the country because they've got to stay and fight then at least demand for your online passport service will have dropped by at least 50%

Re: Estonia saved its citizens 820 years by moving public services online

#35

Post by giantg2 »

Reason077 wrote: post #11

I wonder how many years the US could save its citizens by modernizing and digitizing the IRS, DMV, etc. Tens of thousands? Hundreds of thousands?

The IRS/tax problem is one of corporate lobbying and partisan politics (usually the proposals to reduce or eliminate tax regulations are met by opposition).

Re: Estonia saved its citizens 820 years by moving public services online

#36

Post by InitialLastName »

giantg2 wrote: post #30
Arrath wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Renewing online sure takes a lot of the burden out of the regular renewals. Of course, I'm now 33 and still using a picture of 21yo me on my license which gets me second glances from bar tenders, TSA, etc. But if it keeps me from having to go in to the DMV...

Will they even allow that for REAL ID now?

Yes, I renewed my REAL ID earlier this year entirely online.

It's possible that it would have been more complicated if I had changed my address or needed to change any other information.

Re: Estonia saved its citizens 820 years by moving public services online

#37

Post by Arrath »

giantg2 wrote: post #30
Arrath wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Renewing online sure takes a lot of the burden out of the regular renewals. Of course, I'm now 33 and still using a picture of 21yo me on my license which gets me second glances from bar tenders, TSA, etc. But if it keeps me from having to go in to the DMV...

Will they even allow that for REAL ID now?

Good question, I still need to get my REAL ID.

Re: Estonia saved its citizens 820 years by moving public services online

#38

Post by Avamander »

alberth wrote: post #12

Homeless / Underprivelleged? How does moving things online work for those in poor economic conditions since they might not have online access (no smart phone, etc).

There's basically always the option to use a library or its WiFi. In the case of voting, one can just do it in person.

Re: Estonia saved its citizens 820 years by moving public services online

#39

Post by anotherman554 »

jeffbee wrote: post #13
Reason077 wrote: post #11

I wonder how many years the US could save its citizens by modernizing and digitizing the IRS, DMV, etc. Tens of thousands? Hundreds of thousands?

I recently discovered that the U.S. Social Security Administration has business hours ... for their website. They operate a website that is closed at night and on weekends. One is hard-pressed to imagine the level of IT dysfunction necessary to reach this point.

I have not researched this but rather than being a sign of IT dysfunction my guess would be the government contracts out the maintenance of the web site to the private sector and the contract specs happen to be written to say it will be closed on nights and weekends. In theory this makes the contract cheaper than if the government was buying 24/7 support.
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