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If you’re so smart, how come you’re not happy?

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Re: If you’re so smart, how come you’re not happy?

#91

Post by periphrasis »

dimmke wrote: post #48
lukas099 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We haven't even established that intelligence should imply the desire to be happy. Most people desire to be happy. I don't believe I need to prove this. The point was that we should be able to use our intelligence to identify and resolve issues that decrease our happiness. I think this is true to a certain extent, but there is an upper limit where solvable problems are not the limiting factor to our happiness.

>Most people desire to be happy. I don't believe I need to prove this. Happy isn't a long term state of being. It's a short term emotion like anger or sadness. If you expect to feel that way all the time, and think you can achieve that through some kind of changes to your life you are setting yourself up for failure. You should aim to build a life that is in line with your values, and accept that you're going to have…

> Happy isn't a long term state of being. It's a short term emotion like anger or sadness.

Counter point: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eudaimonia

Re: If you’re so smart, how come you’re not happy?

#93

Post by nyokodo »

javier123454321 wrote: post #72
nyokodo wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Buddhism principles do not lock you in their system if all you want is to understand how happiness works and why you are not happy. Except, eschewing desire altogether which, as I understand it is the goal of Buddhism, isn’t finding happiness it’s merely swapping overt suffering due to unrequited desire for absolute numbness.

Depends on the school and what you as a practicioner bring to the table. Hinayana buddhism focuses a lot on renunciation of worldly affairs, but that's not all there is. In vajrayana buddhism, you work with the knowledge that you have everything to be happy already inside you, and all you need to do is to stop limiting yourself and experience the inherent bliss of all experience. You take everything as an expression…

> you enjoy everything just because it can happen

I cannot enjoy the suffering of my children or the torture and murder of the innocent because "they can happen" which I'd be required to do in this so called "enlightenment." What you're describing is pure selfishness and taking pleasure in evil. That's horrific.

> Your happiness does not depend on anything external so you enjoy things as they come, but don't attach yourself and your wellbeing to an ever changing external world.

Which is total detachment from other people too and their needs and for making the external world better since any attempt to do so would be admitting that things in the external world can really be bad. That's not a recipe for happiness, it's a recipe for total loneliness and, if seriously adopted by enough people, societal collapse. We're a social species, demonstrably. Buddhism as you describe it appears to be a rejection of the real evils in the world, passions, charity, and society.

> Enlightenment is an absolute bliss filled experience, not a state of numbness.

"Bliss" built on the enjoyment of evil is infinitely worse than mere numbness.

Re: If you’re so smart, how come you’re not happy?

#94

Post by z5h »

lukas099 wrote: post #25
z5h wrote: post #12

We haven't established that intelligence should imply happiness. We haven't even established that intelligence should imply the desire to be happy. If intelligence enables a person to identify problems, and problems make a person unhappy, then an intelligent person will have at least one factor that tends to increase unhappiness.

> We haven't even established that intelligence should imply the desire to be happy. Most people desire to be happy. I don't believe I need to prove this. The point was that we should be able to use our intelligence to identify and resolve issues that decrease our happiness. I think this is true to a certain extent, but there is an upper limit where solvable problems are not the limiting factor to our happiness.

> Most people desire to be happy.

Right. Of course.

Evolution has designed us to desire to be happy, but to be unhappy (to some degree, at some times). Otherwise we'd have no drive to do anything ever.

Some degree of unhappiness coupled with the desire to increase happiness is a state we should often expect in a healthy, intelligent individual. A state of unassailable optimal happiness should probably be pathologized (if it isn't already so).

Re: If you’re so smart, how come you’re not happy?

#95

Post by david-gpu »

dimmke wrote: post #48
lukas099 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We haven't even established that intelligence should imply the desire to be happy. Most people desire to be happy. I don't believe I need to prove this. The point was that we should be able to use our intelligence to identify and resolve issues that decrease our happiness. I think this is true to a certain extent, but there is an upper limit where solvable problems are not the limiting factor to our happiness.

>Most people desire to be happy. I don't believe I need to prove this. Happy isn't a long term state of being. It's a short term emotion like anger or sadness. If you expect to feel that way all the time, and think you can achieve that through some kind of changes to your life you are setting yourself up for failure. You should aim to build a life that is in line with your values, and accept that you're going to have…

> Happy isn't a long term state of being. It's a short term emotion like anger or sadness.

"Happy" is a vague overused term that means different things to different people at different times.

While elation or euphoria are fleeting emotions, one can be content or satisfied for prolonged periods of time. It's a bit like confusing sadness and depression.

Re: If you’re so smart, how come you’re not happy?

#96

Post by charles_f »

z5h wrote: post #12

We haven't established that intelligence should imply happiness. We haven't even established that intelligence should imply the desire to be happy. If intelligence enables a person to identify problems, and problems make a person unhappy, then an intelligent person will have at least one factor that tends to increase unhappiness.

I think the article is pretty badly named, it makes a quick remark of "you consider yourself smart so you should be able to fix your happiness problem" then moves on to other, unrelated points around unhappiness at work.

Re: If you’re so smart, how come you’re not happy?

#97

Post by sergiogdr »

nyokodo wrote: post #93
javier123454321 wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depends on the school and what you as a practicioner bring to the table. Hinayana buddhism focuses a lot on renunciation of worldly affairs, but that's not all there is. In vajrayana buddhism, you work with the knowledge that you have everything to be happy already inside you, and all you need to do is to stop limiting yourself and experience the inherent bliss of all experience. You take everything as an expression…

> you enjoy everything just because it can happen I cannot enjoy the suffering of my children or the torture and murder of the innocent because "they can happen" which I'd be required to do in this so called "enlightenment." What you're describing is pure selfishness and taking pleasure in evil. That's horrific. > Your happiness does not depend on anything external so you enjoy things as they come, but don't attach y…

> I cannot enjoy the suffering of my children or the torture and murder of the innocent because "they can happen" which I'd be required to do in this so called "enlightenment." What you're describing is pure selfishness and taking pleasure in evil. That's horrific.

Right. You won't enjoy those things. You just won't add additional unnecessary suffering. Buddhism doesn't teach to enjoy the terrible things about the world, nor to ignore them by some kind of numbness. The whole point is that there is an additional layer of suffering that is entirely optional. This is what they refer to as Dukkha in the "Four Noble Truths".

> Which is total detachment from other people too and their needs and for making the external world better since any attempt to do so would be admitting that things in the external world can really be bad. That's not a recipe for happiness, it's a recipe for total loneliness and, if seriously adopted by enough people, societal collapse. We're a social species, demonstrably. Buddhism as you describe it appears to be a rejection of the real evils in the world, passions, charity, and society. >"Bliss" built on the enjoyment of evil is infinitely worse than mere numbness.

I think your parents' comments admit of more charitable readings.

Re: If you’re so smart, how come you’re not happy?

#98

Post by javier123454321 »

nyokodo wrote: post #93
javier123454321 wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depends on the school and what you as a practicioner bring to the table. Hinayana buddhism focuses a lot on renunciation of worldly affairs, but that's not all there is. In vajrayana buddhism, you work with the knowledge that you have everything to be happy already inside you, and all you need to do is to stop limiting yourself and experience the inherent bliss of all experience. You take everything as an expression…

> you enjoy everything just because it can happen I cannot enjoy the suffering of my children or the torture and murder of the innocent because "they can happen" which I'd be required to do in this so called "enlightenment." What you're describing is pure selfishness and taking pleasure in evil. That's horrific. > Your happiness does not depend on anything external so you enjoy things as they come, but don't attach y…

Somehow completely mistook the gist of what I was saying.

> "Bliss" built on the enjoyment of evil is infinitely worse than mere numbness.

It's a common misconception that you would be happy BECAUSE people are suffering around you. The goal is to separate the content of your experience from your ability to experience. Therefore you are in a natural state of bliss REGARDLESS of any external circumstance.

You can absolutely notice the suffering of others and it comes with a deep sense of compassion when you do. Since you understand that everyone shares in the same potential and that the suffering is caused by them not being able to see that, you are more effective at helping because you don't get caught up in the trip. The best way to help others is to show them the way out of that suffering, to give people the tools to also realize their potential.

The maxim in this kind of buddhism is to better yourself to be of most benefit to ALL sentient beings.

But yeah, if you are actually interested, it is best done through practice. Meditation has incredibly improved my experience of the world and made me more effective at dealing with difficult situations because I can have the distance to observe emotions as they appear and decide whether to use the energy they inherently express or let them fade back to where they came from without acting clumsily.

Re: If you’re so smart, how come you’re not happy?

#99

Post by lukas099 »

Towaway69 wrote: post #54
dimmke wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Most people desire to be happy. I don't believe I need to prove this. Happy isn't a long term state of being. It's a short term emotion like anger or sadness. If you expect to feel that way all the time, and think you can achieve that through some kind of changes to your life you are setting yourself up for failure. You should aim to build a life that is in line with your values, and accept that you're going to have…

> And therapy. Therapy really helps. I think everybody should go to therapy Friends. I think everyone should have good friends they can talk to. If not, then go to therapy.

A lot of friends are terrible therapists. They give bad advice, advice when you don't need it, victim-blame you (e.g. Job's friends from the Bible), etc. These can even be otherwise good friends.
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