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Ask HN: Alternatives to The Economist?

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Re: Ask HN: Alternatives to The Economist?

#191

Post by slowhand09 »

crazygringo wrote: post #162

I see this claim in nearly every HN thread about the Economist -- that it's declined in quality. And it baffles me because, having read it for 20+ years and gone back for research to read plenty of articles from further back... I just don't see it at all. It's the same market-based, socially progressive, pragmatic international strongly opinionated journalism it's always been. Sometimes I think the way it characteriz…

I think its perspective. Drawing a parallel to Elon Musk. He says his political leanings haven't changed. Draw a line marked Far Left, Left, Sort of Left, Middle, Sort of Right, Right, Far Right. He says he was Left or Sort of Left, but somebody dragged the line way to the left. He is where he always was, but the line has moved.

Re: Ask HN: Alternatives to The Economist?

#192

Post by olau »

crazygringo wrote: post #162

I see this claim in nearly every HN thread about the Economist -- that it's declined in quality. And it baffles me because, having read it for 20+ years and gone back for research to read plenty of articles from further back... I just don't see it at all. It's the same market-based, socially progressive, pragmatic international strongly opinionated journalism it's always been. Sometimes I think the way it characteriz…

One thing I've observed personally is that your personal information content changes over time, as you get to know the culture of the people writing. There's just less surprising stuff in there.

Re: Ask HN: Alternatives to The Economist?

#194

Post by Cwizard »

The perceived decline in quality might just be caused by a very real increase in the quality of ‘amateur’ journalism.

I noticed this both during covid and Ukraine coverage. The quality of journalism that is now available online is in my opinion much greater than any news organisation can put out. Often because the amateur journalist are people covering event from on the ground as it is happening.

Re: Ask HN: Alternatives to The Economist?

#195

Post by nullspace »

scythe wrote: post #179
crazygringo wrote: post #162

I see this claim in nearly every HN thread about the Economist -- that it's declined in quality. And it baffles me because, having read it for 20+ years and gone back for research to read plenty of articles from further back... I just don't see it at all. It's the same market-based, socially progressive, pragmatic international strongly opinionated journalism it's always been. Sometimes I think the way it characteriz…

One thing I noticed about The Economist is that every so often they'll bring up some interesting criticism of a widely held view. Then a few days later they'll publish an article vigorously supporting the Current Thing. A particularly obvious example was when they had a column about Ukraine from John Mearshimer, and the various follow-ups. They also ran that takedown of Mohammed bin Salman but periodically tout the u…

I’ve noticed this but I don’t look at it as maintaining relationships.

If you are going to cover a topic deeply better cover all sides of it rather than just a criticism piece or a puff piece. This is what Keeps me coming back to economist.

Re: Ask HN: Alternatives to The Economist?

#196

Post by dhx »

nitin-pai wrote: post #69

The alternative to The Economist is a well curated collection of RSS feeds. Identify a set of intelligent blogs/columnists who post regularly, put their feeds into an OPML file, and you have a great alternative. Added bonus: you can have X and anti-X perspectives for most values of X.

This is the best answer so far. I would add that a researcher/blogger/columnist well versed in the languages/industries/topics they write about, and fusing together and referencing data sources used to form their commentary/view is optimal.

For example, the recent Economist article "In Ukraine, living as normal is an act of defiance"[1] presents a view of everyday civilian life in Kyiv but offers no references or links to anything of substance.

This article would be much more useful and interesting if it provided references, data (as opposed to anecdotes from interviews of a few people) and visual information at both macro and micro levels. For example, the following types of information could be useful in answering the question of "what is life currently like in Kyiv?":

1. A picture showing the rate of growth of "Point of Unbreakability" sites across Ukraine[2] alongside links to videos of a few sites being toured (to show an example of what they typically look like).

2. A link to daily reports on the Ukraine energy grids[3] and a graphical map of changes in energy availability over time.

3. Recent walking tours of Ukrainian cities.

4. A link to retail pricing and availability of a generator or typical basket of groceries and a graph showing changes over time. Or a video tour of typical supermarkets or retail outlets showing the effect of the war on supply of goods[4][5].

Some journalists at media outlets do provide well researched articles from time to time filled with graphs, maps and tables of data[6] but they still generally don't add references and photos/videos. I find this is particularly true for articles that frustratingly claim "New research from the University of Something shows ..." yet there is no mention of the paper title or link to the article in an open journal. Or any reporting on legislation or legal matters--would it be so difficult to link to case information on a court system, link to a bill presented before parliament, etc?

[1] https://www.economist.com/europe/2022/11/23/in-ukraine-livin...

[2] https://nezlamnist-gov-ua.translate.goog/?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_t...

[3] https://dixigroup.org/en/analytic/russian-war-against-ukrain...

[4] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nzO0ikUcL-c

[5] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uzsEdRLML5E

[6] https://www.bloomberg.com/news/newsletters/2022-10-19/maplab... (example relating to how some media outlets have been using satellite imagery during the Ukraine war, also see 'Map Links' at the bottom for more examples)

Re: Ask HN: Alternatives to The Economist?

#197

Post by Aromasin »

crazygringo wrote: post #162

I see this claim in nearly every HN thread about the Economist -- that it's declined in quality. And it baffles me because, having read it for 20+ years and gone back for research to read plenty of articles from further back... I just don't see it at all. It's the same market-based, socially progressive, pragmatic international strongly opinionated journalism it's always been. Sometimes I think the way it characteriz…

I'll strongly opposed that notion. I've been an avid subscriber for just under 10 years, so not as long but long enough. I do truly believe that in the last 1-2 years the "market-based, socially progressive, pragmatic international strongly opinionated journalism" has taken a back seat to fence-hopping, evidence-lacking, low quality articles that I normally see in the Times or the Telegraph.

I've got racks of magazines saved from those 10 years. Flicking back through now and comparing their critique on the EU say, versus 7 years ago, is like chalk and cheese. I'm not sure whether it was Brexit, Trumpism, the new wave of journalism from Vice/Buzzfeed and the like, or journalism's growing obsession with Twitter that caused this strange shift in writing style and substance, but I can physically see the disparity before my eyes now; hence the original post.

I'd doubt my opinion on the matter if, like you rightly put, my viewpoint could be seen shifted over time. But I still read and enjoy the same suite of news and articles that I always have in every other case. I'm not looking for a replacement to them. The Economist is an exception in my case, not the norm. If it was generic declinism, I'd be seeing fault in all of my inputs. As it stands, I'm only seeing it in the Economist. Perhaps it's because it's the one I'm so intimately familiar with. Equally, it's possible that the quality has changed. Maybe there's a good chance you're unable to see it because you've changed in tandem with the magazine, not kept to your own path.

Re: Ask HN: Alternatives to The Economist?

#198

Post by Aromasin »

slowhand09 wrote: post #191
crazygringo wrote: post #162

I see this claim in nearly every HN thread about the Economist -- that it's declined in quality. And it baffles me because, having read it for 20+ years and gone back for research to read plenty of articles from further back... I just don't see it at all. It's the same market-based, socially progressive, pragmatic international strongly opinionated journalism it's always been. Sometimes I think the way it characteriz…

I think its perspective. Drawing a parallel to Elon Musk. He says his political leanings haven't changed. Draw a line marked Far Left, Left, Sort of Left, Middle, Sort of Right, Right, Far Right. He says he was Left or Sort of Left, but somebody dragged the line way to the left. He is where he always was, but the line has moved.

There's a concept for that: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overton_window
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