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Ask HN: Alternatives to The Economist?

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Re: Ask HN: Alternatives to The Economist?

#171

Post by LocutusOfBorges »

cybrexalpha wrote: post #131

I took out an Economist subscription for the first time this year, and I've found it really mixed. Lots of interesting articles, but I'll agree the analysis isn't as good as many other sources I've seen (in my view). What's the bigger blocker for me is the anti-LGBT+ lean. For example the most recent article on trans rights: November 19th - 25th 2022 issue, "Transgressions", page 29 in print. It's not even the insidi…

Seconding this.

I cancelled my subscription quite a few years ago in light of the low quality of analysis in the UK section of the paper - it felt like tabloid journalism aimed at people who thought too highly of their class status and level of education to deign to read a real tabloid, yet essentially at the same level of insight, peppered with a few affected rhetorical flourishes conveying an aesthetic of educated sophistication.

It’s very much a newspaper designed to give people without the time or inclination to develop a substantial understanding of an issue a quite superficial overview, packaged alongside an opinion that can be regurgitated as required to give the impression that one has a respectable understanding of the matter in question (at the very least, outside some of its more detailed feature articles).

…Even in light of that, the rapidity of the decline in its coverage of LGBT+ human rights has been extraordinary, even by UK standards. The fact that prominent editorial staff at the newspaper (Helen Joyce, for one) are extremely prominent anti-transgender activists probably has something to do with it - but the sheer venom of its coverage really took me aback when I started following its current turn. The issue certainly isn’t specific to it, given the broader anti-trans/LGBT+ turn in the UK press as a whole, but the Economist stands out as one of the worst for it.

Re: Ask HN: Alternatives to The Economist?

#172

Post by tootie »

crazygringo wrote: post #162

I see this claim in nearly every HN thread about the Economist -- that it's declined in quality. And it baffles me because, having read it for 20+ years and gone back for research to read plenty of articles from further back... I just don't see it at all. It's the same market-based, socially progressive, pragmatic international strongly opinionated journalism it's always been. Sometimes I think the way it characteriz…

Agree 100%. Sensibilities have changed and I fear it's due to a load of social media propaganda. People have been overly conditioned to look for conspiracies everywhere. Even if you have resisted the onslaught of criticism of "liberal media" it can wear you down in subtle ways. I don't see any substantial drop in quality for the traditional standard bearers like The Economist or the New York Times. They're not perfect because they are run by a collection of human beings but they still do a better job than anyone else.

Re: Ask HN: Alternatives to The Economist?

#173

Post by omarhaneef »

mannykannot wrote: post #170
crazygringo wrote: post #162

I see this claim in nearly every HN thread about the Economist -- that it's declined in quality. And it baffles me because, having read it for 20+ years and gone back for research to read plenty of articles from further back... I just don't see it at all. It's the same market-based, socially progressive, pragmatic international strongly opinionated journalism it's always been. Sometimes I think the way it characteriz…

I think you have a point... and, furthermore, declinism today is just about the same as it always has been.

I have to disagree.

The quality of decline has really gone downhill in the last few years. Used to be that when things fell apart, they really fell apart (think revolution, collapse) but now they just peter out.

Re: Ask HN: Alternatives to The Economist?

#174

Post by gibsonf1 »

erikpl wrote: post #112
gibsonf1 wrote: post #100

Quoted post unavailable.

Media Bias Fact Check describes it as a very right-biased outlet with questionable factuality. They are also categorized as "right-biased" by Ground News, "right-leaning" by AllSides and "far-right" by Wikipedia. Maybe not the best source for neutral and factual news coverage?

Curious about the leanings of the Media Bias Fact Check, Ground News, AllSides and that Wikipedia assessment?

Epoch Times is the most objective news outlet I've been able to find - actually reporting the news for what it is. Not censoring out stories it doesn't like, etc. If anyone knows of a more objective outlet, please let me know.

Re: Ask HN: Alternatives to The Economist?

#175

Post by heywherelogingo »

crazygringo wrote: post #162

I see this claim in nearly every HN thread about the Economist -- that it's declined in quality. And it baffles me because, having read it for 20+ years and gone back for research to read plenty of articles from further back... I just don't see it at all. It's the same market-based, socially progressive, pragmatic international strongly opinionated journalism it's always been. Sometimes I think the way it characteriz…

It's not you, it's everyone else?

Re: Ask HN: Alternatives to The Economist?

#176

Post by chipotle_coyote »

civilized wrote: post #94
bmj wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a difference in the online content of the Atlantic v. the print magazine. The print magazine still has some high quality content.

Don't they ultimately publish the same stuff in both? I would definitely appreciate a quality/triviality filter though, maybe the print is the only way to get it.

I think that everything that's in print is available on the web site, but there are also web-only things, so the print magazine may be a bit of a "quality/triviality filter" in that regard.

I like The Atlantic in general, although I think they have a bit of what I sometimes call a "contrarian bias", e.g., prioritizing "the conventional wisdom is X, but here's why it's wrong" think-pieces even when their theses aren't particularly strong. (Slate and Salon were much worse about that in their heyday.)

Re: Ask HN: Alternatives to The Economist?

#177

Post by jwr »

crazygringo wrote: post #162

I see this claim in nearly every HN thread about the Economist -- that it's declined in quality. And it baffles me because, having read it for 20+ years and gone back for research to read plenty of articles from further back... I just don't see it at all. It's the same market-based, socially progressive, pragmatic international strongly opinionated journalism it's always been. Sometimes I think the way it characteriz…

Same here — I don't see a decline in quality of the articles. I am annoyed (and refuse to use) their new phone app, which runs animated ads in articles, so that part is going downhill like everything else in the ad world. But the journalism seems to be good.

I carefully read articles about my country to check for inaccuracies, and sometimes ask people from other countries about other articles. The result of these checks is always the same: the journalism is solid, facts are presented well, the articles are always slightly condescending and overuse the word "should". If the "shouldism" annoys you, you can always easily skip these parts.

I continue to subscribe, because it's pretty much the only thing out there.

Re: Ask HN: Alternatives to The Economist?

#178

Post by FabHK »

jmyeet wrote: post #122

Years ago before electronic devices, The Economist was my "flight fodder" in that I only really bought a copy when I had a long flight and it was long and dense enough that I'd never get through it all. I haven't read it in awhile. It's disappointing to hear the quality has gone down (if true). You're not suggesting otherwise but I feel compelled to mention it anyway for completeness: every publication has a politica…

It's a bit more nuanced than "neoliberal, centre-right", though.

The Economist is aware of the failures of markets, in favour of drug legalisation, gay marriage, gun control, measures to curb climate change (they've called for a carbon tax from 1987 onwards), and has endorsed the Democrat rather than Republican candidate in 6 of the last 8 US presidential elections.

Re: Ask HN: Alternatives to The Economist?

#179

Post by scythe »

crazygringo wrote: post #162

I see this claim in nearly every HN thread about the Economist -- that it's declined in quality. And it baffles me because, having read it for 20+ years and gone back for research to read plenty of articles from further back... I just don't see it at all. It's the same market-based, socially progressive, pragmatic international strongly opinionated journalism it's always been. Sometimes I think the way it characteriz…

One thing I noticed about The Economist is that every so often they'll bring up some interesting criticism of a widely held view. Then a few days later they'll publish an article vigorously supporting the Current Thing. A particularly obvious example was when they had a column about Ukraine from John Mearshimer, and the various follow-ups. They also ran that takedown of Mohammed bin Salman but periodically tout the upsides of Saudi Arabia.

I don't hold it against them, really; it's a business, and modern journalism relies on maintaining relationships with sources, who are often government officials and agencies. It's not too hard to recognize the stuff that gets published "defensively" once you're used to that.

Re: Ask HN: Alternatives to The Economist?

#180

Post by paganel »

liotier wrote: post #161
jll29 wrote: post #21

Very timely question, I just purchased an issue of the Economist because I was toying with the idea of re-instating a previously held subscription. I share the disappointment. In the past, even just the book reviews were so good that they "forced" me to buy 2-3 of the reviewed books; that issue didn't intrigue me. I don't have an answer whether it's a general trend or not, as I'm trained not to ascribe too much weigh…

> France has Le Monde Diplomatique While Le Diplo's writers are usually top rate and the international outlook extraordinary for a French publication, the caricatural "anticapitalist" and anti-USA stance tint it too much to my taste - and I'm saying that as a French socialist !

Not sure how relevant to HN's audience, but I found out that a very good French magazine is So Foot. It's a sports magazine with really interesting articles and pretty well written, with a slight "political" tone interspersed here and there, if you know where to look (I'd say slightly veering left).

[1] https://www.sofoot.com/

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