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Using rats to clear land mines in Cambodia

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Re: Using rats to clear land mines in Cambodia

#51

Post by hutzlibu »

anikan_vader wrote: post #35
raisin_churn wrote: post #27

I would prefer to use US senators who refuse to ratify the Mine Ban Convention. They won't need any particular skills or training, just have them wander around possible UXO sites until they find one with their foot. The great thing about this is, US senators are a 100% renewable resource.

An interesting idea, although I think the US is actually ahead of the curve on mines. From Wikipedia: >> Opponents point out that the Ottawa Convention places no restriction whatsoever on anti-vehicle mines which kill civilians on tractors, on school buses, etc. The position of the United States is that the inhumane nature of landmines stems not from whether they are anti-personnel as opposed to antivehicle but from…

There is a big difference between anti vecicle and anti personal mines.

First, they are way easier to detect, as they are bigger and have more metal/explosives to spot.

Also the risk is minimized for the people clearing those mines, if they know they only have to deal with the big ones.

Secondly, it is easier and more practical to mark a field as not save for big vecicles for some time, compared to unsafe for everyone. (schoolbuses usually don't drive through fields)

So yeah, ideally we would not have any kind of mines or war, but we do. And when you want to stop lots of russian tanks for example, I totally would use anti tank mines.

They just won't cripple random children, like the anti person mines will do. And you can clear them out quite easily and safe with just a metal detector and a minimum of training.

But if you have a field with both types of mines, yeah than it is really expensive and dangerous to clear it. And I am amazed by the concept of using rats for help.

And about the self destroying mines - if they would always work like this, it is indeed a big improvement. The concept that they only can go off as long as the battery has power, sounds quite failproof. I remain sceptical though.

Re: Using rats to clear land mines in Cambodia

#52

Post by Hithredin »

SV_BubbleTime wrote: post #7
senortumnus wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Antipersonnel mines absolutely should have an expiry date after which they are no longer triggered by the depression of their sensor. Issue is, these things are mass manufactured and probably have some defect rate which increases with time after deployment. So they couldn’t be trusted to be ‘safe’ after expiring anyway. But still would save lives & limbs to have a mechanism like that built in.

That’s just not how explosives work. Any detonator explosive to set of a main charge must be reliable for dozens of good reasons. Over time an as a required condition. Asking for something decays or approaches an unreliable state after time is a non-starter. Another user pointed to a basically failed electronic program, but even then, you have to detonate the mines, you can’t just disarm them and make the highly effi…

From a strategic perspective, obsolescent mines make total sense. I wonder why it is not the norm.

Country usually don't wage war just to destroy (Seeing Ukraine, not so sure anymore). But to own and use the land. This allow to keep the territory futureproof. While for the defender it's even more logic.

Long live mines are only useful around long term places: military base, korean border, ...

Re: Using rats to clear land mines in Cambodia

#53

Post by rippercushions »

raisin_churn wrote: post #27

I would prefer to use US senators who refuse to ratify the Mine Ban Convention. They won't need any particular skills or training, just have them wander around possible UXO sites until they find one with their foot. The great thing about this is, US senators are a 100% renewable resource.

Sadly, the Ottawa Treaty is a meaningless bit of political theater. Precisely zero of the major mine producers & users (US, Russia, China, India, Pakistan, nearly the entire Middle East, etc) have signed up, and many of those that did, particularly in Eastern Europe, are having second thoughts after seeing what's happening in Ukraine (a signatory).

The main issue is that by nature, the convention only "punishes" responsible actors: it weakens the country that keeps its mines safely in a warehouse and has plans to deploy them within hours in clearly defined and well mapped minefields to defend its borders, and does nothing to prevent others from indiscrimately spraying plastic landmines that look like fun toys [1] from helicopters.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PFM-1_mine

Re: Using rats to clear land mines in Cambodia

#54

Post by Nitrolo »

rmason wrote: post #48
themodelplumber wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They should develop smart plants with a distributed root system, an overabundance of shoots, a preference for seeking mines, and a high threshold for shoot pain. This would also prepare us with countermeasure systems control for when the AI tries to take over.

Smart plants that turn red when their roots reach explosives have been around for close to twenty years. Why have they not succeeded? Near as I can tell the Danish company that launched them experienced huge pushback because they were GMO's and this was the height of anti-GMO hysteria in Europe. The charities that would fund distribution wanted nothing to do with GMO plants - even if they saved lives. I found one stu…

That is incredible. In the literal sense of the word, I thought you were joking until I was halfway through your post.

Do you have any more links? I'd love to learn more.

Re: Using rats to clear land mines in Cambodia

#56

Post by asdff »

dmichulke wrote: post #45
asdff wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMO because they don't sanction nearly enough

With your approach there's always the risk that your sanctions are worse for the population than the consequences of the mines, particularly because economic damage is compounding. How do you deal with that?

You can sanction the individual oligarchs versus the country wholecloth perhaps. Ban the oligarchs from travel, deny their private jets over allied airspace, deny their boats a right to port, offer a bounty for their boats in international waters. Seize their foreign assets. Ban them from participating in your markets. Make participating in the fun of the global high society annoying to impossible, and force them to be on house arrest in their own country. Do the same for their extended families living abroad and their close friends. Kick their children out of foreign private schools. Jail the kids. Do the same for the oligarchs in any country who doesn't want to align with the UN on this issue.

There's plenty of things that could be done beyond what has been done typically.

Re: Using rats to clear land mines in Cambodia

#57

Post by sw104 »

ggm wrote: post #30

African giant pouched rat. Cheek pouches. (not marsupial). Poor eyesight so the sniffing is presumably evolutionary advantage for the niche they'd normally occupy. Given enough time, I wonder what other social adaptive qualities could emerge in a species like this? Domestication of dogs and cats had huge longterm upsides for both species and humans. Most rats by number are now co-occupants of human space but by speci…

I've owned multiple (fancy) rats as pets in my time. The species is somewhat split into domesticated and non-domesticated.

My rats would probably never have survived in the wild (due to their appearance, sand/tuxedo coloured, instead of just gray/brown), and likewise wild rats wouldn't be possible to domesticate.

There's quite a few videos on YouTube of the social skills they can develop. Quite amazing animals, but incredibly short lives. Most people who have them don't get new ones after the originals die because it can be so heartbreaking losing a pet every 2 years or so.

Re: Using rats to clear land mines in Cambodia

#59

Post by qikInNdOutReply »

raisin_churn wrote: post #27

I would prefer to use US senators who refuse to ratify the Mine Ban Convention. They won't need any particular skills or training, just have them wander around possible UXO sites until they find one with their foot. The great thing about this is, US senators are a 100% renewable resource.

Let political realities not interfer with my utopian vision. Mines prevent more slaughter by a belarussian invasion right now. The truth is, all those dictatorships with operett emperors out there, are super fragile and will lean into external conflict as soon as internal strife boils over. And if you dont want a world armed to the teeth with nukes, you will have borders like the north south korea ones, were mines prevent these failing societies from becoming clinging boxers.

A nightmare? Yes, see it every morning in the mirror. Reality is pain, accepting real human nature and its limitations, learning to embrace this, turns one into a grown up adult.

Your discusson spam of a world made for unicorns is not helping anyone.

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