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Intentionally making close friends

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Re: Intentionally making close friends

#291

Post by deltaseventhree »

FeistySkink wrote: post #267
deltaseventhree wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hook up culture is made up of lots of woman and a few men. The women are desperately searching for a relationship. The few men involved with hook up culture have too many options are unwilling to commit due to overwhelming supply. There are two reasons for why it's like this. The first reason is dating apps. Dating apps make it very easy for women to be even more selective then they already are. The second reason is…

Perhaps you can share the data?

https://medium.com/@worstonlinedater/tinder-experiments-ii-g...

https://www.reddit.com/r/TrueAskReddit/comments/whpxuw/datin... This study had an unrelated purpose but nevertheless extracted the same data.

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/magazines/panache/the-m...

Everything I'm saying is common knowledge if you are an average (key word) man on dating apps OR if you're well versed in academic anthropology or evolutionary psychology (NOT gender studies). As an average male, we live this life anecdotally. The imbalance of power in the dating market invades every facet of what we feel and see. It is part of our logical reality. If you are not an average single man, it is very likely this reality is completely foreign to you; and when presented with this new angle you will likely not accept it.

Our culture paints a picture of inequality. The equation speaks to one side of of the story. The story of female empowerment; The rise of of the underdog. The other side of the equation, the male side, is invisible, especially if you are not a male.

The evidence extends beyond dating app statistics (which all categorically point to the same conclusion) to biology and anthropology:

https://www.theguardian.com/science/2014/sep/24/women-men-dn... The genetic diversity of female genes is greater than male genes.

https://slate.com/technology/2012/10/are-humans-monogamous-o... In anthropology Monogamy is considered to be a mating strategy that guarantee a single mate for all men. It is advantageous to men and in many societies it is artificially enforced. Polygamy is more advantageous to females and the likely natural outcome when females are more empowered in society. It guarantees the best mate for females.

Of course women would prefer to be in a monogamous relationship with an alpha male. But given the choice between monogamy with a beta male or polygamy with an alpha they choose the later.

More on that here: https://www.vice.com/en/article/a38dwj/monogamy-may-be-even-...

Given anthropological studies of human culture and genetic studies of female genetic diversity, the conclusion is inescapable:

Hookup culture is the natural outcome of human behavior. Dating apps only magnify this behavior and allow us to collect data on it.

Re: Intentionally making close friends

#292

Post by legerdemain »

Denzel wrote: post #290
legerdemain wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I also work out at a gym 5-6 days a week, but without headphones, because I want to be able to hear people reaching out to me. There are definitely gym regulars (the guy wearing Top Gun shades indoors who uses 14 plates for his leg press and never puts them back). The extent of my socializing at that gym, over the course of two years, has been "sorry, are you still using that."

Exactly, the opportunities for you to converse are there. You can act upon the author's advice. I suspect you're choosing not to in your daily life. You can talk to anyone, not just the regulars, with a little bit of observation. Most people are happy to talk about their lives because we all go through life with little to no people showing an interest, not even people close to us. Another example from just the other…

My point is that I, apparently, am more open to others than you, and make more effort to address them than you, but don't have accidental results as good as yours. I suspect that you understood what I meant, but decided to post a critical and accusatory note nevertheless.

Re: Intentionally making close friends

#293

Post by legerdemain »

dmichulke wrote: post #271
rchaud wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There's so much DEMAND for friends, that people will gobble up your supply if you offer it (so long as you're not a total monster) This really doesn't ring true outside of school/university years. Back then, you are constantly meeting new people, and seeing them regularly in class and on campus. People that age don't have a "max occupancy" number when it comes to making friends. As an adult in the working world, th…

> This really doesn't ring true outside of school/university years I'll happily state the contrary: Supply easily saturates demand at the university but after that most are on their own. So, demand stays the same but supply drops off (because you have much less available time). So this is where you can shine. > knock your socks off with their personality, for you to even consider meeting up with them again No, I talk…

  > This is also why it's easier to talk while waiting for the train,
  > it's a limited time and they feel easier knowing that you won't
  > be potentially annoying them during the whole train ride.
Wait, how does that work? If you're waiting at the same stop, you'll board the same train, right? Unless they wait for the next one to avoid you? Wouldn't they be concerned that you'll board together and continue making conversation for the entire commute?

Re: Intentionally making close friends

#294

Post by legerdemain »

2devnull wrote: post #280
m_fayer wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re right but you’re also wrong. I know of social circles in middle age that have largely locked down. People have their routines and responsibilities and loved ones, and that’s that. They make little effort to clear space for new relationships. I also know other circles, also middle aged, where people have made it a priority to not do that. There is still flux and change in these circles. Its a choice, basically.…

Location matters. In Silicon Valley, many people you meet are not locals, they come and they go. Like the tide. Other places this is different, like small towns where everyone knows everyone else. Some places people are more defensive, less friendly. Being an extrovert in a city where everyone is a visitor doesn’t help form lasting friendships and a faux pas in a small town can become a scarlet letter that follows yo…

"Man Jose" is characterized by endless sprawl of modest single-family housing and is full of ethnic communities (South Asian, Chinese, Vietnamese) and families raising young children. It has more small neighborhood churches than almost anywhere else I have lived. Describing San Jose as a land of antisocial young men strikes me as frankly bizarre.

Re: Intentionally making close friends

#295

Post by l33tbro »

archagon wrote: post #241
l33tbro wrote: post #95

This is kind of sad. It just feels like OP has built this enormous apparatus over some emotional void they've picked up in their development. Making friends just isn't that hard for the vast majority of people. If you're having to use reverse engineering and problem solving to form emotional connections, then you might want to spend the time in therapy and working through what caused you to be emotionally stunted.

Why are you so weirdly judgemental/insecure(?) about this very earnest post? > Making friends just isn't that hard for the vast majority of people. Good for you and the vast majority of people, I guess...?

Because I find gamifying connection sad.

Re: Intentionally making close friends

#296

Post by tim-montague »

Making close friends is a big reason why I'm building FourHere (https://www.fourhere.com). After working in Silicon Valley for years, the only people I've been able to somewhat connect with are co-workers. Facebook, TikTok, LinkedIn, etc doesn't actually help you build friendships -- it's a bunch of people you know about, but don't actually meet. And I think that's unhealthy. There are studies that show close friendships, can help us live up to 20 years longer.

Re: Intentionally making close friends

#297

Post by watwut »

afr0ck wrote: post #252
valarauko wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are you contrasting the "West" with? As a person who lived most of his life in an Asian country with a very strong familial and social construct, I can say that there were no shortage of lonely, broken people there - we as a society just did a better job of hiding it. Perhaps the sense of failure and isolation may have slightly different causes, but that is not to say that Western society is somehow uniquely bro…

I would never say it's uniquely broken. Loneliness and isolation probably exist in every corner of the world. The thing is that the West gets almost everything done right IMHO. It's an amazing place to be. However, the connection and social part of it is not going anywhere. Families are one of the best constructs to build life-long fullfilling relationships, but everyone is giving up on them now. People are not getti…

The divorce rates are in long term decline.

Re: Intentionally making close friends

#298

Post by TuringTest »

legerdemain wrote: post #293
dmichulke wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This really doesn't ring true outside of school/university years I'll happily state the contrary: Supply easily saturates demand at the university but after that most are on their own. So, demand stays the same but supply drops off (because you have much less available time). So this is where you can shine. > knock your socks off with their personality, for you to even consider meeting up with them again No, I talk…

> This is also why it's easier to talk while waiting for the train, > it's a limited time and they feel easier knowing that you won't > be potentially annoying them during the whole train ride. Wait, how does that work? If you're waiting at the same stop, you'll board the same train, right? Unless they wait for the next one to avoid you? Wouldn't they be concerned that you'll board together and continue making conver…

The bus arriving is a natural break point for ending the conversation, I'd say. There's no social obligation to keep talking once you are both are busy boarding the bus and finding a seat, so it's a good time to say farewell.

Re: Intentionally making close friends

#299

Post by shepherdjerred »

PuppyTailWags wrote: post #167
shepherdjerred wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> building more non-romantic relationships with women. I completely agree; I've always preferred being friends with women, but in my opinion it's not easy to do. Things sometimes get complicated quickly if there's attraction on either side which often happens to at least one side if you're close friends. Even without romantic feelings, things get weird/awkward if either party is in a relationship or married.

I wonder if we can learn something from homosexual people in this. I don't often see gay guys cutting off their straight friendships because they're one-sidedly attracted for example in the same way straight men swear off any woman.

I think the crux there is that there isn't the potential mutual attraction.

For me, it would be much harder to develop feelings if I knew that there couldn't be attraction.

For a straight man it is probably just as easy being friends with a gay woman as it is a straight man, because in both cases there won't be mutual attraction. Conversely as a gay male it would be easy being friends with straight women or straight men -- I think that's where you see the stereotype of gay men with many friends who are straight women.

Re: Intentionally making close friends

#300

Post by thomastjeffery »

> I...was too anxious to try...a non-standard action

That's a really familiar type of anxiety.

We tend to put a lot of human interaction into a shared narrative. That's pretty useful, so long as there is a role in that narrative that we can fill, that will bring us to a desired outcome.

As soon as it doesn't, we suddenly become personality responsible for writing the narrative. To become the writer is intensely liberating, but the pen feels heavy and sharp to an unpracticed hand.

And we have a lot of social boundaries that make it feel wrong to be the writer. Who are you to dictate this interaction? Isn't that selfish or greedy? Playing God? Blasphemy!

Social interaction can feel a lot like chess. After years of practice playing the roles of each piece, being a pawn, a bishop, a rook, the queen, all you have left is a king. 50 more moves and you lose! What do you do? Cheat?

But cheating is wrong! It's an unfair advantage! It breaks the rules!

Breaking the rules is actually fine. The rules are nothing more than structure for the game. We don't have to keep playing. The only rules we can't break are thermodynamics.

My first instinct is to make a new game. Better yet, an expansion! I can just put all my desired functionality into an abstraction, and share that with everyone! That's collaboration, right? I have another word: boilerplate.

The scary thing about playing God isn't rejection: it's faith. If someone puts their faith in my narrative, then suddenly I'm responsible for their needs, too.

I don't want the responsibility. I don't want to pay God. But that's selfish in it's own way: someone has to fill the role. If I'm the one putting faith in others, then I'm dumping my own responsibility onto them.

So there is no way around this anxiety. I can't factor it out and abstract it away. I can't place the burden on someone else and expect them to succeed for me. I can't analyze and predict potential outcomes.

There are only two moves left:

1. Wait

2. Act

Option #1 is just what we call the time leading up to Option #2, so the choice has already been made. The only question left is, "When?" "Now" is as good as answer as any other.

---

The thing I have to keep reminding myself is that "yes" is a valid option. It's important to respect "no" when you hear it, but to expect "no" takes all the power and potential out of "yes".

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