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The Balenciaga Controversy

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Re: The Balenciaga Controversy

#91

Post by mc32 »

MuffinFlavored wrote: post #65
jasonwatkinspdx wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean the fashion show is just the typical haute couture nonsense. But I did look up the instagram profile you're talking about and saw one of the images in google's cache. I'll save other people the trouble of doing the same: it's a little kid taped into a chair with packing tape, including over their mouth, and they're wearing headphones connected to a laptop showing some sort of tv show. It's not CSAM but it cert…

> which I find incredibly poor taste. I wonder if that's the point. Fashion is all about pushing boundaries/generating buzz/publicity, right? I'm not saying I agree with it. I just don't think anybody would be talking about Balenciaga on HackerNews if they weren't being quite literally as edgy as possible/pushing the boundaries as hard as possible. If all of this ends up increasing sales/brand image in one twisted wa…

Do you think they'll go for the same but instead use stereotypical imagery of starving children or POWs? I bet they do not because yes, it'll create lots of "controversy" but also many advocacy organizations will come down on them like a ton of bricks.

Re: The Balenciaga Controversy

#93

Post by HNDV »

p0pcult wrote: post #48
navjack27 wrote: post #43

To everyone commenting on this using the phrases: Seems bizarre Is bizarre Disturbing Seems concerning Fishy If someone shows you who they are believe them Shame Disgusting Literal demons Very unsettling Congratulations! You took the bait! Now you are participating in something called moral outrage. All you are doing is exactly what they want you to do. They being Balenciaga. You are free marketing.

And, unfortunately, the very dumb in the USA will use this as justification for shooting up LGBTQ nightclubs...or pizza parlors.

>the very dumb in the USA will use this as justification for shooting up LGBTQ nightclubs

Did you mean the Colorado shooting, which was done by a non-binary person whose father was a porn actor? Or the Orlando shooting, which killed 49 and was the product of a muslim immigrant who self declared as a supporter of ISIS?

>or pizza parlors.

You mean, the one shooting in which nobody was actually shot?

Re: The Balenciaga Controversy

#94

Post by PuppyTailWags »

ulfbert_inc wrote: post #72
navjack27 wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The theme is child abuse... Except not in the way that you're thinking about it... It's speaking out against it by showing the extreme depiction of it in a controlled art manner.

Art is meant to be beautiful, not to crush human spirit.

Nah, I don't think this is the take generally.

There is art that crushes the human spirit. Art about war. Art about slavery. Art about personal trauma. I think if we only depicted pretty war, pretty slavery, pretty rape and genocide, that's pretty disgusting.

Re: The Balenciaga Controversy

#95

Post by stickfigure »

woodruffw wrote: post #51
thepasswordis wrote: post #3

Here’s Balenciaga’s 2023 video showing off their styles for the year. This is from their own YouTube channel. Fair warning: the children shown appear to be dolls, not actual human children, but it is still disturbing: https://youtu.be/Yh_1K9s6UV0 These seem to be adults dressed as literal demons (one of them has horns on their head) many of whom are carrying (probably fake) children, and all marching through the mud.…

I watched this video and I think you've grossly overstated how disturbing it is. The "theme" (insofar as anything high fashion really has a theme) seems like a mixture of grindhouse and apocalypse. "Child carrying a doll" is a borderline trope in that context: compare, for example, the first episode of The Walking Dead. I don't know anything about the thing you haven't linked, because you haven't linked it. But the p…

My takeaway is simply "this makes people want to buy clothes??"

Overall the result is comedy.

Re: The Balenciaga Controversy

#96

Post by hairofadog »

incrudible wrote: post #92
hairofadog wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many incidents of “preschool leather daddy” have there been?

At least one, but it's not something I'm willing to google to find out precisely how common it is.

My first guess would be zero, but even if it is in fact one, the answer to your question regarding how many times it would take to make me believe this fashion show is part of a child-porn conspiracy is "more than that".

Drag queens have more to do with clowns than with sex. I can't see anything wrong with drag queen story hour.

Re: The Balenciaga Controversy

#97

Post by thepasswordis »

WastingMyTime89 wrote: post #83
thepasswordis wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think I can explain to you why this is unsettling in the same way I can't explain why abusing animals is bad, stealing is bad, or anything else is "bad". If we don't already have a shared system of morals which says "abuse of children is bad", then it seems unlikely I'm going to convince you that depictions of child abuse are bad. To me, this is "bad" because I subscribe to a belief system that thinks abusing…

Well done on implying someone not agreeing with you on the moral value of carrying dolls in a fashion show is actually them not caring about child abuse and having a poor moral system. Please at least try to argue in good faith. It’s the first time I think I should flag a comment looking polite at face value.

>Well done on implying someone not agreeing with you on the moral value of carrying dolls in a fashion show

This is not fair. The original post was about the inappropriate use of children in a marketing campaign. Balenciaga claims they didn't know the nature of the photoshoot.

The video I linked provides context demonstrating that balenciaga continued the same theme in their fashion show. "Why is this fashion show bad" "because it is part of a larged set of behaviors which include and encourage child abuse".

You can disagree with me, but don't misstate what I am saying.

Re: The Balenciaga Controversy

#98

Post by harywilke »

ulfbert_inc wrote: post #72
navjack27 wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The theme is child abuse... Except not in the way that you're thinking about it... It's speaking out against it by showing the extreme depiction of it in a controlled art manner.

Art is meant to be beautiful, not to crush human spirit.

I can think of lots of art that are designed to, if not crush the humans spirit, at least call into question the goodness of it. See "Rhythm 0" by Marina Abramović or “Helena & El Pascador” Marco Evaristti are just two examples.

Re: The Balenciaga Controversy

#99

Post by woodruffw »

stickfigure wrote: post #95
woodruffw wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I watched this video and I think you've grossly overstated how disturbing it is. The "theme" (insofar as anything high fashion really has a theme) seems like a mixture of grindhouse and apocalypse. "Child carrying a doll" is a borderline trope in that context: compare, for example, the first episode of The Walking Dead. I don't know anything about the thing you haven't linked, because you haven't linked it. But the p…

My takeaway is simply "this makes people want to buy clothes??" Overall the result is comedy.

Exactly. It's honestly a funny video, insofar as it demonstrates how ridiculously divorced concept fashion is from everyday clothing.

Re: The Balenciaga Controversy

#100

Post by slibhb »

Balenciaga was trying to be edgy and got sucked into the culture war.

In the culture war, the right often raises the issue of sexual abuse of children where it exists and not, or the depiction of children in any proximity to sexuality. The right is reacting to a view on the left that we should "treat children like adults". Following from this, many on the left see nothing wrong with exposing children to sex, nudity, stip shows and so on. This is related to the problematization of sex (the left would like to unproblematize sex; the right sees the problematization of sex as necessary).

I would say that we're constantly negotiating new norms and it's not surprising that norms regarding children (and how they are depicted) are a particular flashpoint. Consider Slouching Towards Bethlehem. One of the eduring images from that essay is aimless hippies feeding their children LSD for breakfast. Still, I'm optimistic about this process. The left and right both have a point and we'll slowly work towards a middle ground.

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