Live data from Hacker News

Why Is It So Hard for Men to Make Close Friends?

nytimes.com

31–40 of 76 posts

Re: Why Is It So Hard for Men to Make Close Friends?

#31

Many of us are victims of feminism to some degree. I managed to make lasting friends in high school with some gay boys. But after high school, I preferred to hang around straight people, and a straight guy won't get too close--because it might be gay? I was subjected to decades of gender-based emotional abuse and so my relationships with women are also poor. This is a direct result of feminists and feminism. I develo…

> I invited a woman to church one evening and the event had a reception with delicious food afterward. It finished up around 9pm and we were right in the middle of downtown in a major metropolis. I flitted off to the train station chatting to a different woman. I hadn't given a second thought that my companion was stuck downtown wearing dark clothing and she would also need to find a bus stop, alone and female. Honestly none of that occurred to me because I didn't even consider it a "date" or a "companion" for the night.

You inviting someone somewhere would make you a decent human being if attend to them even if you had no sexual or emotional incentive to, it’s because you are the one who invited them.

Re: Why Is It So Hard for Men to Make Close Friends?

#32

I wish I had some. I heard once, the best or only places to make friends as an adult are where encounters are repeated and casual, so like university and church. But I don’t attend either.

There are churches that will accept you for who you are, and let you search for what you need. If you showed up at my church and introduced yourself as "not a Christian, but I think regular involvement with this group would be healthy for me" I would welcome you and find ways to involve you.

Organized religion is not for everyone, but it might be that what you want can be served by organized religion, a la carte.

Drop me a message if you want to know more.

Re: Why Is It So Hard for Men to Make Close Friends?

#35

Many of us are victims of feminism to some degree. I managed to make lasting friends in high school with some gay boys. But after high school, I preferred to hang around straight people, and a straight guy won't get too close--because it might be gay? I was subjected to decades of gender-based emotional abuse and so my relationships with women are also poor. This is a direct result of feminists and feminism. I develo…

> Many of us are victims of feminism to some degree.

A male doesn't have male friends and this is femenism's fault?

> But after high school, I preferred to hang around straight people, and a straight guy won't get too close--because it might be gay?

Sounds like you have some serious insecurities... One of my best friends is gay, I don't think anyone ever thought I'm gay because I hang out with him, but if they did I just don't care. My mate is more important to me than some random prick's opinion.

Also plenty of activities considered manly and not gay are done in groups. Team sports are often perceived as manly not gay activities, things like hunting or fishing are also done in groups commonly and society percieves them as totally not gay, even after Broke Back Mountain. Men hanging out with other men are usually not perceived as gay.

I'm not saying that you are, but this sounds like a repressed gay man would be insecure of. And there's nothing wrong with being openly gay, but being repressed fucks people's mental health.

> I was subjected to decades of gender-based emotional abuse and so my relationships with women are also poor. This is a direct result of feminists and feminism.

Honestly pretty much everyone is influenced by the society, feminists and feminism are everywhere. If it was something provoked by a social movement as large as feminism it would hapen affect everyone. It would affect me, your coworkers, your cousin, the butcher, etc. Now I agree that social interactions in general have changed, but most people still manage to have functional relationships.

Sounds to me that you have some internal issues to deal with... Perhaps professional wouldn't hurt.

Re: Why Is It So Hard for Men to Make Close Friends?

#36

I wish I had some. I heard once, the best or only places to make friends as an adult are where encounters are repeated and casual, so like university and church. But I don’t attend either.

> I wish I had some. I heard once, the best or only places to make friends as an adult are where encounters are repeated and casual, so like university and church. But I don’t attend either.

Can I offer some advice?

I suggest you find what people find interesting about you and make yourself available to all who you come across if you feel this isolated, go to events where those traits are part of an equally shared value system, volunteer or tutor at a HS and share your skill set to those who are intrested in pursuing a career in tech and see what comes from it and you might just found some teacher friends as a result. Ex: I still hung out at an arcade as an adult because it was just a part of being a 90s kid, I met so many other people who worked in tech as a result and had lots of interesting conversations about Life and work that I otherwise never would have.

I have also traveled extensively and met people from all kinds of walks of like, such that despite having been in tech in various periods of my Life I still make an effort to speak or hang out with my farmer and chef friends or the friends I met while clubbing or doing activism and introduce myself to new friends with the explicit intent of noting that being solely confined to one aspect of Life is easiest way for me to get bored and lose interest.

As I got older I saw how easy it was to drift away from those things we all had in common as many grow out or have families and the only ones that remained were the ones who I felt were people who I had more in common than the hobbies that brought us together.

Modernity has offered us many comforts in Life, and as a result the things that bonded males strongest together were often trauma related (War, hard dangerous manual labour, immense and high projects); as tech workers are disproportionately on the higher end of the earning scale they should in theory have more opportunity and resources to experience and explore more, but the reality is far harsher: they are often kept far and completely detached from those visceral struggles that have defined male Life for most of Human existence. And thus suffer from this loneliness.

I'm not saying Life is easy, tech has in my experience an immense amount of normalized mental health issues that is only second to my time in Kitchens in frequency and even then only by so much, but it is my observation that working 10+ hours at one's desk and then going to an empty apartment and playing video games or watching netflix and ordering doordash for another 5 hours before going to sleep seems to be the routine so many fall into. I've met so many who have and have relegated this routine for years and solely focus on a higher TC for more stuff and leisure time only to later wonder why they never have friends.

I'm on an odd situation, I'm an introvert by nature but I make friends easily when I'm motivated and which often requires some level of intoxication for me to be agreeable enough to keep a conversation light enough to now scare people off--as a child I was the odd kid in the group who thought too much about everything and pointed out the absurdity of it all, so I came off as pretentiously precocious and could feel isolated but I realized my oratory/story telling skills when used correctly opened many doors so I worked on it diligently and it served me well with my social skills later on in Life.

Personally speaking, I can and have gone weeks/months without talking to anyone because I'm so immersed in a project or what ever subject; but my mental health suffers so much that I always make an effort to make even small talk with a stranger I know I'll never see again or have a call with a friend while I eat or have a drink when I go somewhere or at home even if I'm on the other side of the World from them and on a 9+ hour time difference.

Re: Why Is It So Hard for Men to Make Close Friends?

#37
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always saw men in my father's generation (he was born in the 1940s) have many close friends that would get together regularly. These close and decades old friendships are especially critical now that he's retired. Without them, he'd be completely isolated. A significant percentage of men not having any close friends feels like a recent development in the last 1-2 generations.

Going by the stories I’ve heard from my dad and uncles, they all had lots of male friends and drinking buddies, guys they knew from the union, the bowling league, the VFW, the Lions Club, etc. All those institutions that have either completely collapsed or become irrelevant for young people in America. I don’t think any of those guys went to church much. The take that GP is expressing feels like a very post 1980s thi…

>Going by the stories I’ve heard from my dad and uncles, they all had lots of male friends and drinking buddies, guys they knew from the union, the bowling league, the VFW, the Lions Club, etc. All those institutions that have either completely collapsed or become irrelevant for young people in America.

None of those friends and support groups would be "close" friends per TFA's definition because they weren't acting in the quasi-therapist role that the author apparently thinks is required of "close" friends. Yet clearly those relationships filled the need.

Re: Why Is It So Hard for Men to Make Close Friends?

#38
post #25

It is really not hard. Find decent people with which you have something in common. Give them some loyalty and support and if you get some back - you have friends. With years they turn into close friends. Men's friendships are forged they don't just happen. The town - 2010: - I need your help. I can't tell you what it is, you can never ask me about it later, and we're gonna hurt some people. - Whose car are we gonna t…

This doesn't ring true. Friendship is defined by a willingness to engage in violence without reason? Loyalty means supporting and accepting someone for who they are. Not just doing whatever they ask regardless of consequence.

To steelman ReptileMan's point -- I think we should extract the _spirit_ of the back-and-forth of the quoted exchange and realize that it's about the willingness to jump in... to anything a potential friend might suggest and to see where that takes you (within reason and preference, of course).

Re: Why Is It So Hard for Men to Make Close Friends?

#39

Many of us are victims of feminism to some degree. I managed to make lasting friends in high school with some gay boys. But after high school, I preferred to hang around straight people, and a straight guy won't get too close--because it might be gay? I was subjected to decades of gender-based emotional abuse and so my relationships with women are also poor. This is a direct result of feminists and feminism. I develo…

If you invite someone out, you shouldn't just ditch them. It doesn't matter who you invited out or what your plans, or lack thereof, are.
Post reply on HN