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Ask HN: Why do so many CXOs hate talking to tech teams?

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Re: Ask HN: Why do so many CXOs hate talking to tech teams?

#11
post #7
post #5

As someone who has been in both tech IC (individual contributor) and higher management levels, this is often a relatively simple result of impedance mismatch (excluding bad faith individuals for now): ICs and lower level managers are all about inputs and outputs, blocking and tackling, getting shit done. At the higher management levels it is all about setting direction, setting the "tone", "getting the culture right"…

Even mid managers have expressed similar concerns to me about finding it difficult to work with tech. E.g., a product manager has complained to me that they wanted a feature built which would have had a direct revenue impact but were stuck because the tech team wanted to "triage" which she didn't understand. Sounds to me that we need a "tech-to-normal" language translator.

Aren't PMs supposed to have an elevated communication skillset compared to ICs? I don't think it's too much to ask for a manager to know what the word "triage" means in a planning context, or to look it up. Particularly a product manager; understanding that stakeholders have multiple different priorities and navigating that situation is the essence of their job.

Perhaps we're misinterpreting and the team was just stonewalling. That happens sometimes with certain teams, sometimes it's because they're chronically understaffed. However, that's obviously no representative of the "tech" (i.e. software) role as a whole.

Re: Ask HN: Why do so many CXOs hate talking to tech teams?

#13
post #7
post #5

As someone who has been in both tech IC (individual contributor) and higher management levels, this is often a relatively simple result of impedance mismatch (excluding bad faith individuals for now): ICs and lower level managers are all about inputs and outputs, blocking and tackling, getting shit done. At the higher management levels it is all about setting direction, setting the "tone", "getting the culture right"…

Even mid managers have expressed similar concerns to me about finding it difficult to work with tech. E.g., a product manager has complained to me that they wanted a feature built which would have had a direct revenue impact but were stuck because the tech team wanted to "triage" which she didn't understand. Sounds to me that we need a "tech-to-normal" language translator.

One of the main role of product manager is supposed to do this translation.

Re: Ask HN: Why do so many CXOs hate talking to tech teams?

#14
Because there's usually a huge gap in people skills.

Most high level management is about meeting others and creating teams and motivating people to work together.

High level tech teams are about focusing on one thing and excluding the world around them. And in my experience, quite a lot of skilled programmers aren't comfortable being around too many strangers.

When programmers are concentrated on work, some people persons will misinterpret that as shunning them. Also, so many tech people treat management as a waste of money, that I'd say the disdain for each other is mutual.

Re: Ask HN: Why do so many CXOs hate talking to tech teams?

#17
post #7
post #5

As someone who has been in both tech IC (individual contributor) and higher management levels, this is often a relatively simple result of impedance mismatch (excluding bad faith individuals for now): ICs and lower level managers are all about inputs and outputs, blocking and tackling, getting shit done. At the higher management levels it is all about setting direction, setting the "tone", "getting the culture right"…

Even mid managers have expressed similar concerns to me about finding it difficult to work with tech. E.g., a product manager has complained to me that they wanted a feature built which would have had a direct revenue impact but were stuck because the tech team wanted to "triage" which she didn't understand. Sounds to me that we need a "tech-to-normal" language translator.

Triage is usually a non-tech word (QA/Customer Support normally). We need a human-to-human language translator, and it exists, it is called a question.

Re: Ask HN: Why do so many CXOs hate talking to tech teams?

#19
post #5

As someone who has been in both tech IC (individual contributor) and higher management levels, this is often a relatively simple result of impedance mismatch (excluding bad faith individuals for now): ICs and lower level managers are all about inputs and outputs, blocking and tackling, getting shit done. At the higher management levels it is all about setting direction, setting the "tone", "getting the culture right"…

I think there's a level of bullshit in both views. Many orgs are absoloutly mismanaged.

- At the lower levels you're getting shit done. Maybe. And if you are that's good, but if the shit isn't revenue generative, supporting revenue, or saving costs, then your job might actually be a bullshit job.

- At the higher levels, you hopefully know where your revenue is coming from, and your job is to maintain that whilst growing more. But if you have no operational ability, you're at the mercy of the first group, and might not actually have any real impact in the direction of the company.

The mismatch and lack of empathy causes the discourse. The devs typically have limited incentive to chase revenue, the leaders have limited desire to get their hands dirty.

Successful startups / growth companies are less likely to look like this, though funding can distort the relationship.

Re: Ask HN: Why do so many CXOs hate talking to tech teams?

#20

Because there's usually a huge gap in people skills. Most high level management is about meeting others and creating teams and motivating people to work together. High level tech teams are about focusing on one thing and excluding the world around them. And in my experience, quite a lot of skilled programmers aren't comfortable being around too many strangers. When programmers are concentrated on work, some people pe…

My view from the ground as a client support monkey is that people who ply on tech spend their days having arguments with inanimate or intangible objects, and/or mediating other peoples' irrational arguments with inanimate or intangible objects.

Management's job is to ply on people. Rational arguments with rational actors...most of the time.

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