Live data from Hacker News

Designing Windows 95’s User Interface (2018)

socket3.wordpress.com

31–40 of 176 posts

Re: Designing Windows 95’s User Interface (2018)

#31

Some of the greatest UX of all time. Shame how far we have fallen in the current flat world.

A few people are trying to claim it back! My current favorite - https://github.com/dremin/RetroBar

I wonder what the differences between Classic, 2000, 95/98 themes are when put side by side.

Re: Designing Windows 95’s User Interface (2018)

#32
post #24
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Designers are the gatekeepers though, maybe they should stand up to these folks more often.

I think one of the main problems is that a surface-level argument can easily be made that user engagement represents the quality of the user experience (i.e. "users that spend a lot of time in the app clearly like it"), despite falling apart if you dig deeper than the surface. The allure of short-term profits makes such an argument attractive to upper leadership. It also makes it more difficult for a lower-level empl…

I suspect a lot of that is because designers aren't often technology lifers, rather seemingly entering this field smelling profit and riding the wave as it were. I don't know what the solution is here other than firing them all and replacing them with engineers and passionate tech nerds who remember their history. Which won't ever happen, and the situation is hopeless.

The world we could have had...

Re: Designing Windows 95’s User Interface (2018)

#33

I was playing with a Win98 computer the other day, and it is amazing how well most of the UX has held up even now. And it's so fast , especially considering the limitations of the hardware it was running on. Really interesting seeing some of the design process that resulted in it.

It’s amazing how fast everything in the core system runs when it runs trusted.

Re: Designing Windows 95’s User Interface (2018)

#34
I still think the biggest user interface (UI) change from Microsoft was the change from Windows 3.1 to Windows 95. There were so many features and improvements e.g. the re-designed Open/Save dialog (not much changed since then). Later versions of Windows have never made the same leap between new versions of Windows. Sure, there are refined or tweaked features (or regressed!), but each new version of Windows felt like an incremental update from the previous version.

I think the next leap in UI and visual design from Microsoft was...Windows Phone 8 (2012). It was a refreshing and different approach to mobile design. The visual language 'Metro' worked well on mobile touch screens. But Microsoft took the bad decision to transplant 'Metro' (flat design) to the desktop. The result is a clumsy, jumble of inconsistent screens. It simply doesn't work.

Re: Designing Windows 95’s User Interface (2018)

#35

Back then you could test your UI on people that were a completely blank slate, having possible never used a computer before. You could focus on making the best possible UI there is. Now, users come already with certain habits and expectations developed by years of of computer use. This means, even if you really cared about the user experience of your customers you would only be able to make incremental improvements t…

> This means, even if you really cared about the user experience of your customers you would only be able to make incremental improvements to the status quo or else be be rejected for being too different.

Isn't this a good thing, though? Creating software that most current users out there can be easily onboarded with and be productive and familiar with quickly, without too much work put into it.

I recently did an article on using Linux as my daily driver for a week and admittedly picking a really boring desktop environment (XFCE) was a pleasant experience: https://blog.kronis.dev/articles/a-week-of-linux-instead-of-...

Sure, things were occasionally broken for technical reasons, but at least the UX itself wasn't what was causing problems or friction. It's very much like using something like LibreOffice (with the default dropdown interface, or the optional ribbon one) after other office packages - it feels close enough to what you're used to not to be completely jarring, even if there might be other issues with it.

> Not that certain standards are not also valuable but it still a sobering thought that we are in a local optimum that we will never be able to escape from. (And I fear most products are not even hitting the local optimum but are getting worse when it comes to UI design but that is besides the point.)

In my eyes, not challenging the status quo and making incremental improvements is a good idea for the majority of developers out there (even in web development, where you have your navbars and your sidebars and so on), let the trendsetters take the big risks and take what is proven to work in the long run from them, without being impacted negatively by their failures.

I do, however, support the idea of usability studies and looking for what might be better than what we currently have, but redesigns for the sake of being "modern" or "trendy" just seems like designers going for the fun low hanging fruit, like large companies just changing around all of their product icons, instead of working on, say, accessibility, text contrast and so on.

Re: Designing Windows 95’s User Interface (2018)

#36

I think windows 95/98 era was the peak of UI discoverability. As a kid, I and my friends could learn and explore how a program worked just by expanding all the menus and opening the various dialogs. Dialogs which were filled with fields and their descriptions! Before then, it was the world of DOS and you had to know what you were doing ahead of time. And now, UIs are dynamic, initially hiding stuff from the user and…

My daughter does the same thing with modern UIs and doesn't have much of an issue. I don't think many kids these days are struggling to identify various functionality of the multitude of apps available. Sure UIs are different today and maybe to us older people it's byzantine, but the newer generation of users seem to be able to pick up quite easily.

I wouldn't be surprised if when we were kids, there were older people saying just how bloated and inefficient Windows 95's UI was, with all the mouse clicking and things hidden behind menus, etc etc...

Re: Designing Windows 95’s User Interface (2018)

#37
post #27

Too bad they didn't read these notes before gutting the taskbar in Win11. It's so unusable, so slow when you can't "ungroup" stuff. Made me actually reinstall and go back to Win10.

Or the task bar grouping in Windows 7 that I've found most people actually don't prefer when you reveal that it's optional. A lot of people also like it, maybe as much as 40% or so, but when I look over someone's shoulder (who had been using 7 for ages already) and I wondered out loud how they manage to work with that task bar, they were usually happy to learn of a way to just see open programs instead of having this…

> except now the settings are all over the place

On Windows 11, it's very rare to have to use the old Control Panel. It still exists for some uncommon settings, but nearly everything has been moved to the new settings. And everything is actually intelligently grouped. I only wish you could have multiple Settings windows open at once.

Re: Designing Windows 95’s User Interface (2018)

#38

I think windows 95/98 era was the peak of UI discoverability. As a kid, I and my friends could learn and explore how a program worked just by expanding all the menus and opening the various dialogs. Dialogs which were filled with fields and their descriptions! Before then, it was the world of DOS and you had to know what you were doing ahead of time. And now, UIs are dynamic, initially hiding stuff from the user and…

I think the big key in your comment is "As a kid,..". Maybe you think this is the easiest to learn/discover UI because it is the UI that you used to learn and discover. I see "kids these days" navigating around flat, touch-based interfaces with ease, in the same way that I found the desktop paradigm of the late-90s to be incredibly natural. I think a lot of us came of age during that time, and as such see it as the u…

Some of the stuff's purely a step back. The "flat" craze was and remains obviously a bad over-correction (it's not clear to me that any correction was called for at all, really) and UIs auto-updating out from under people then constantly splashing "helpful" modals and such over the UI to tell you a bunch of stuff you don't want or need to know is all straight-up UI poison.

[EDIT] The move away from native toolkits and to very-custom UI for everything is also plainly bad. Java and Flash got the ball rolling on that (and both rightly caught shit for it) but Webtech junk is what really made that awful pattern take off. "Corporate really wants to make sure our checkbox elements are on-brand" OH MY GOD what an incredible waste of money, when you consider the total cost to the industry as a whole, in order to make UIs worse.

Re: Designing Windows 95’s User Interface (2018)

#39

I think windows 95/98 era was the peak of UI discoverability. As a kid, I and my friends could learn and explore how a program worked just by expanding all the menus and opening the various dialogs. Dialogs which were filled with fields and their descriptions! Before then, it was the world of DOS and you had to know what you were doing ahead of time. And now, UIs are dynamic, initially hiding stuff from the user and…

I think the big key in your comment is "As a kid,..". Maybe you think this is the easiest to learn/discover UI because it is the UI that you used to learn and discover. I see "kids these days" navigating around flat, touch-based interfaces with ease, in the same way that I found the desktop paradigm of the late-90s to be incredibly natural. I think a lot of us came of age during that time, and as such see it as the u…

Very true - I'm a little bit older, so I view the Amiga user interface as superior (at least in some ways - I describe it as "the feeling that you have the computer's full attention". Windows doesn't give me that even today.) - and also recognise how much Windows 95 borrowed from other systems. (RiscOS in particular)

It came as quite an eye-opener to me recently to realise younger people now entering the workforce view the mouse as an archaic input device.

Re: Designing Windows 95’s User Interface (2018)

#40
post #10

Some of the greatest UX of all time. Shame how far we have fallen in the current flat world.

I keep wondering, if flat is the new hot thing, why don't people just use libXaw to build their modern, cutting-edge UIs and not hobble my computer's performance in the process?

Because they cannot draw some rectangles like in the good old days. They have to "compose" a 3D surface of the screen. /s
Post reply on HN