Live data from Hacker News

China state CCTV avoids crowd close ups at the World Cup

twitter.com

321–330 of 353 posts

Re: China state CCTV avoids crowd close ups at the World Cup

#321
post #316
post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Taiwan is worth ending the world over. Not because Taiwan is particularly important by itself, but because expansionist dictators must be stopped at all costs. If Xi succeeds in conquering Taiwan then that would be just the first of many targets. From a game theory perspective, being willing to end the world over Taiwan is ironically the best way to prevent the world from ending. Deterrence works.

> Taiwan is worth ending the world over. Not because Taiwan is particularly important by itself, but because expansionist dictators must be stopped at all costs. If at all costs, you include hundreds of millions of corpses, no, absolutely not. It's not worth it. It's not remotely worth it, and it's insane (In the colloquial, 'madman with his finger on the button' way) to consider it. Burning down the village does not…

> if at all costs, you include hundreds of millions of corpses, no, absolutely not

Nobody is saying we should nuke China if they invade Taiwan. Just that our risk tolerance to Beijing escalating conventional engagement to all-out nuclear war cannot be zero.

We must be ready to sink Chinese ships and potentially hit port and missile facilities with conventional arms. Refusing to do so is the sort of appeasement that virtually guarantees a future, far deadlier conflict. That engagement risks nuclear escalation is an important consideration, but not a decisive one.

> puts the lie to the sole reason for why civilization-ending nuclear arsenals should be allowed to exist

We agree. This has been a lie for some time. Nukes are terrible. Between rationale regimes, they seem to reduce large-scale conflict. With dictators, the calculus shifts.

Were getting rid of them an option, I’d take it. Presently, the world is going in the opposite direction, with the normalisation of tactical nukes a likelihood in our lifetimes.

> you can't take a red sharpie to the entire map of the world

Nobody has done that. Taiwan has de facto American security guarantees. If China invades Mongnolia the world will be angry, but nobody will go to war.

Re: China state CCTV avoids crowd close ups at the World Cup

#322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s no limited war between China and the us

> no limited war between China and the us “Limited” as in not seeking unconditional surrender. As long as the U.S. doesn’t threaten the CCP’s existence, limiting its aims to thwarting Xi’s policy goals, i.e. taking Taiwan, it’s irrational for Beijing to escalate to nuclear Armageddon. But Xi is a dictator, and dictators do not make for rational states, so who knows. What is clear: a Chinese invasion of Taiwan would m…

> Xi is a dictator

I agree but I don’t think that is grounded in rational thought. Lol. Xi still has to go through a bunch of hurdles to get what he wants. He is not a real dictator.

Your idea of limited war is interesting. First attack on just a few objects in a limited scope. Then branch off onto other targets. Then full out war! There is no real limit in war.

Re: China state CCTV avoids crowd close ups at the World Cup

#323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China already has several highly effective vaccines. The problem is that a significant fraction of elderly people don't want to get vaccinated. Taiwan, Hong Kong and Singapore had the exact same problem with vaccine hesitancy among the elderly. It's a cultural thing.

It’s a cultural thing for sure. The older generation in China went through the Cultural Revolution and distrusts the government.

On the contrary, I find that the older generation has much greater trust in the government than the younger generation, but also believes much more strongly in Chinese traditional medicine.

In my experience, people in China nowadays do not associate the post-Mao government with the Cultural Revolution, particularly since the people who took over in its aftermath had themselves been persecuted. Deng Xiaoping was purged during the Cultural Revolution. Xi Jinping's father was purged and imprisoned. Even Xi Jinping himself was affected, in that he was "sent down to the countryside." There's a broad rejection of the Cultural Revolution in China, but that isn't the same as a rejection of the Party or government.

Re: China state CCTV avoids crowd close ups at the World Cup

#324
post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok so you're going to have to resist all-caps replying "WHATABOUTISM!" but you realise by that definition both the USA and the UK could be "dictatorship" for sending in troops to crush both rebellion (the UK did in Northern Ireland) and protests (like USA did in Kent State)? I said in another comment that I don’t wanna get into a debate on the subtleties of what is/isn’t a dictatorship, but THIS is an odd place to dr…

We're not arguing about the US or the UK here. Mainland China is the topic.

Well originally I was talking about why even though CCP is the single dominant party in China they still want some sort of exit from their Zero Covid policy that doesn't lose them face. Then you made an argument that they're a dictatorship on the grounds that they've turned their troops loose on their own people. Which is a surprising and extraordinary definition, because it also applies to the US and the UK - countries generally not thought of as "dictatorships".

Re: China state CCTV avoids crowd close ups at the World Cup

#325
post #297
post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the US is ruled by a government that will start a war with a nuclear power for any reason other than an attack against it, we need to do everything possible to replace that government. Because doing that is insane, and we cannot let madmen in charge of a nuclear football. Taiwan isn't worth ending the world over.

Taiwan is worth ending the world over. Not because Taiwan is particularly important by itself, but because expansionist dictators must be stopped at all costs. If Xi succeeds in conquering Taiwan then that would be just the first of many targets. From a game theory perspective, being willing to end the world over Taiwan is ironically the best way to prevent the world from ending. Deterrence works.

People in Taiwan disagree, recent US saber rattling has pushed more of the population towards one china policy support. Im sure the demolition and casualty rate in Ukraine didnt help.

Re: China state CCTV avoids crowd close ups at the World Cup

#326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Even without vaccines, the current covid strain is not even that harmful. Among the unvaccinated (of which there still exist a shocking amount), it absolutely is harmful. Even amongst the triple or quadruple vaccinated, it can be dangerous. My s/o's sense of smell was impacted for months, we were out of work for two weeks - but a friend of ours for six months and she's still not at the performance mentally that she…

Was your friend vaccinated? From my own anecdotal experience, all of my triple vaccinated friends and coworkers are catching covid several times a year, while myself and my family that are unvaccinated, haven't been seriously sick from covid except once. I caught it once, very bad early on, and then was out for a week about a year and a half later, but have had countless covid exposures with no issues. One of my frie…

This has been my experience as well. Among those who I know who contracted Covid, either this year or last, all had >=2 shots. None of them ended up hospitalized, but did get very sick, bedridden, trouble breathing, no sense of taste, etc - I never took any shots and have yet to experience Covid that I know of.

Just lucky? Maybe, but there should be enough statistical data to find out the efficacy of the Covid shots versus baseline by demographic - I be really curious to find out how much marginal gain there is in for those who are young and healthy, you have to also slice up the data by variant - because I suspect it wasn't worth all the coercion around taking it. And that I think will have political ramifications in Western democracies terms of the amount of societal, political and workplace pressure that was brought on to enforce vaccine mandates (outside of hospitals and the military, If you sign up for those two, you signed up to a be human guinea pig imo).

As for China, when I came back from Xinjiang in 2018 I described the surveillance and constant social control to anybody that would listen, especially when meeting relatives in the wealthy coastal cities in China. Basically, nobody believed me, or just shrugged their shoulders, some even endorsed it because "Uighurs are thieves and bad elements and need a heavy hand". To this day, I have relatives who believe this latter point.

Well now the shoe is on the other foot, zero-Covid is basically just rolling that kind of "Grid management" control to the whole country. It was first used in Tibet to quell the monk immolations (anybody even remember that?), and then in Xinjiang and now its nation wide. Back then it was all in the name of "combating terrorism and splittism" now it's "disease control".

The fundamental principle is and has always been - just how much individual power should be ceded to the state in the name of the good of the group - and if it is ceded, what clauses and guarantees are there that such measures are temporary? These last years in the West, a lot of has been ceded but people can protest and disobey, there are ways to live outside of the system if need be, or at least take a break from it - in China that is extremely hard.

Re: China state CCTV avoids crowd close ups at the World Cup

#327

Yeah. When people in mainland China saw all the unmasked foreigners at The World Cup it spawned a lot of ideation. I'll summarize the ideas I've seen floating around the Chinese internet: - It's a money-making scam by the COVID test manufacturers - It's a money-making scam by the temporary quarantine center manufacturers - It's a failure of bureaucracy ”层层加码” - It's a ploy to increase the depth of state surveillance…

I'll add another I heard today, "it's a natural experiment that is being conducted and if there is no outbreak it means CoviD is over"

A very handy about face!

Re: China state CCTV avoids crowd close ups at the World Cup

#328
post #262
post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't know if it's correct to call China a "dictatorship" but I'll humour you for a moment. Seriously? What's your definition of "dictatorship"? Let's take Wikipedia's one for example: > A dictatorship is a form of government which is characterized by a leader or a group of leaders which holds governmental powers with few to no limitations on them. Can you sincerely say that it doesn't apply?

China is a lot of things, it's nominally communist but that doesn't quite capture the whole situation on its own, it's technically a "dictatorship" by that definition (probably more so recently with Xi Jinping consolidating power) but that also doesn't quite capture it all either. I don't want to debate terminology because it's tedious and detracts from the actual point I was making - that just because the CCP has a…

Well, don't start your comment by nitpicking terminology if you don't want to debate terminology. You can't just drop an argument and then evade contradiction like that.

Re: China state CCTV avoids crowd close ups at the World Cup

#329
post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't know if it's correct to call China a "dictatorship" but I'll humour you for a moment. Seriously? What's your definition of "dictatorship"? Let's take Wikipedia's one for example: > A dictatorship is a form of government which is characterized by a leader or a group of leaders which holds governmental powers with few to no limitations on them. Can you sincerely say that it doesn't apply?

This argument about whether Xi is a dictator or not actually plays out with fair regularity on his Talk page[0] on Wikipedia. The general consensus – whether astroturfed by CCP I cannot tell – usually ends that he is not. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Xi_Jinping/Archive_1

Wikipedia also deletes articles about female academics who go on to win the Nobel prize the next day. I don't particularly care about the "consensus" that they build.

Re: China state CCTV avoids crowd close ups at the World Cup

#330
post #288
post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re reading that paper wrong. It says that the cumulative risk of death, long Covid, etc increases with the number of infections. Of course it does: the only was it wouldn’t would be if reinfections has zero or negative risk. (I’m ignoring whether the paper is correct in the first place.)

I’m not sure what you think I’m saying wrong. Here is the salient quote from the abstract “The evidence shows that reinfection further increases risks of death, hospitalization and sequelae in multiple organ systems in the acute and postacute phase.”

(Using made up numbers here)

Lets say that infection #1 puts the risk of outcome A at 40%

Infection #2 puts the risk of outcome A at 60%

Infection #3 puts the risk of outcome A at 70%

Each infection increases the risk of outcome A, but it isn't an increasing rate.

---

This would be very different from

Infection #1 having a risk of outcome A at 10%

Infection #2 having a risk of outcome A at 30%

Infection #3 having a risk of outcome A at 70%

---

The first case that I described matches Figure 5: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-022-02051-3/figures/5

Note the difference in the rate of increase between the infections.

Yes, multiple infections increases the risk. However, each subsequent infection has a lower rate of increase of the chance.

Post reply on HN