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China state CCTV avoids crowd close ups at the World Cup

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Re: China state CCTV avoids crowd close ups at the World Cup

#311

Post by coryfklein »

ohbtvz wrote: post #203
smcl wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know if it's correct to call China a "dictatorship" but I'll humour you for a moment. The idea that dictatorships have everything under control and can conduct themselves however they please is true ... until the point that it isn't. So while a dictator technically doesn't necessarily need to justify themselves or to have a reasonable, fair plan for some given situation that pleases their subjects - they prob…

> I don't know if it's correct to call China a "dictatorship" but I'll humour you for a moment. Seriously? What's your definition of "dictatorship"? Let's take Wikipedia's one for example: > A dictatorship is a form of government which is characterized by a leader or a group of leaders which holds governmental powers with few to no limitations on them. Can you sincerely say that it doesn't apply?

This argument about whether Xi is a dictator or not actually plays out with fair regularity on his Talk page[0] on Wikipedia. The general consensus – whether astroturfed by CCP I cannot tell – usually ends that he is not.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Xi_Jinping/Archive_1

Re: China state CCTV avoids crowd close ups at the World Cup

#312

Post by powerapple »

rhaway84773 wrote: post #36
bananapear wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They also provided the genetic sequencing used to create the mRNA vaccines and then… didn’t use them.

It’s not clear to me why China wouldn’t just get Pfizer and/or Moderna to sell white label versions of their vaccines to at least vaccinate the older population in China. And if not the US vaccines then the Oxford vaccine, which is being sold without a profit even in the West and is far superior to the Chinese equivalent, would be a cheaper option. A big driver of the problem however is that a regime built on control…

Chinese elders are not going to inject it into their body. You have to inject at least 3 vaccines to be sufficient against variants. The more technology advanced vaccine is going to be worse because people prefer nature herbs, further away from technology is better in their opinions.

Re: China state CCTV avoids crowd close ups at the World Cup

#313

Post by zarzavat »

solumunus wrote: post #280
zarzavat wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t buy that. No other country was able to completely arrest the spread of COVID through lockdowns, even Australia and New Zealand which are islands surrounded by giant oceans were not able to stop the flood of infections. China borders 14 countries. If there’s “no COVID” it’s because it’s being suppressed, with or without Beijing’s knowledge.

Obviously there isn't "no COVID". Nobody is suggesting that. If there was "no COVID" they wouldn't need the lockdowns. They're trying to minimize covid by being extremely reactive to it because they don't have effective vaccines yet. The situation still makes OP's comment correct. If they stop being highly reactive and open up before they have better vaccines then the results will be extremely bad.

I don’t see any bears. The bear patrol must be working like a charm.

What evidence is there that the lockdowns in China are effective at doing anything at all?

What evidence is there that COVID hasn’t already passed through the population like it has in every other country?

What evidence is there that the “people who will die if the lockdowns are stopped” didn’t perish long ago?

The main evidence appears to be the existence of the zero-COVID program itself. Surely a country wouldn’t pursue such a damaging policy unless it was effective, right?

What we do know: post-omicron variants of the virus are extremely transmissible and defeated all other attempts at zero COVID.

Re: China state CCTV avoids crowd close ups at the World Cup

#314

Post by bee_rider »

potatochup wrote: post #303
bee_rider wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

NZ was pretty successful I thought. Didn’t they make an active decision to stop worrying so much about it after getting vaccines?

NZs isolation policy couldn't keep out omicron. The upside was, by the time omicron showed up and started spreading around the population, most people were vaccinated, and deaths due to the original strain were very low (I think it was like 50 deaths? 150 maybe?). The country also had most of 2020 and early 2021 totally COVID free, so businesses like cafes, retail, didn't have as much of a shock

Seems basically impossible to untangle — they loosened restrictions and hit high levels of vaccination at the same time as Omicron arrived, right? NZ’s isolation policy became pretty ineffective when they stopped doing it, of course, haha.

Re: China state CCTV avoids crowd close ups at the World Cup

#316

Post by vkou »

nradov wrote: post #297
vkou wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the US is ruled by a government that will start a war with a nuclear power for any reason other than an attack against it, we need to do everything possible to replace that government. Because doing that is insane, and we cannot let madmen in charge of a nuclear football. Taiwan isn't worth ending the world over.

Taiwan is worth ending the world over. Not because Taiwan is particularly important by itself, but because expansionist dictators must be stopped at all costs. If Xi succeeds in conquering Taiwan then that would be just the first of many targets. From a game theory perspective, being willing to end the world over Taiwan is ironically the best way to prevent the world from ending. Deterrence works.

> Taiwan is worth ending the world over. Not because Taiwan is particularly important by itself, but because expansionist dictators must be stopped at all costs.

If at all costs, you include hundreds of millions of corpses, no, absolutely not. It's not worth it. It's not remotely worth it, and it's insane (In the colloquial, 'madman with his finger on the button' way) to consider it. Burning down the village does not save the village.

> From a game theory perspective, being willing to end the world over Taiwan is ironically the best way to prevent the world from ending. Deterrence works.

That's a bait and switch. The only reason nuclear weapons can be tolerated is because they prevent war between empires. When your doctrine explicitly expects them to fail to do that, it puts the lie to the sole reason for why civilization-ending nuclear arsenals should be allowed to exist.

You can draw red lines that can't be crossed like 'an attack against our territory will be responded to dispropritionately', but you can't take a red sharpie to the entire map of the world. Nobody will actually believe you when you do.

Re: China state CCTV avoids crowd close ups at the World Cup

#317

Post by tlogan »

jmbrook wrote: post #228
tlogan wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This might be a Ceausescu moment for Xi. I just do not understand why he did not “declare that China won against COVID and how CCP is great”. (If there is a problem with vaccination rates, the CCP has tools to make that happen. Yes Sinovax vaccine is not very effective but with 3 doses it will cut death rates by 90% or so.) So the question here is really why Xi decided to keep zero-COVID. Maybe he is not so smart? Or…

I never quite understood why they don't just rebrand the Pfizer vaccine (or effective one) and move on. What is the point of having all that propaganda apparatus if you can even do that?

I think nobody is in charge. I assume that Xi wanted to use COVID to solidify his power. But that failed and now everybody is waiting since he does not have enough power to change the narrative …

There is a rumor there are a lot of officials which still wait for approval from Hu Jintao and his group to do anything. But that rumor is from person who was not in China for 5 years.

Re: China state CCTV avoids crowd close ups at the World Cup

#318

Post by panda_2134 »

ctvo wrote: post #239
WiSaGaN wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't need to be in China to dubunk those. You just need to do some independant research easily, say by visiting the CCTV video site. Knowing some Chinese helps, but it won't stop anyone who is determined to find the truth.

Why is it difficult to get your stance on this? Even in your original post, it was unnecessarily circular. Are you saying the crowd shots are still being shown in China? Yes or no? How do you know?

Definitely no after Nov 25 0:00 UTC+8. I am Chinese and checked every goal after the apartment fire. Since Nov 28, the functionality of switching to other cameras in the mobile app has been removed. (It was possible to manually switch to a camera shotting crowds in the app before)

You can also check it at [1] or download the app and see it yourself.

[1] http://cctv5.cntv.cn/

Re: China state CCTV avoids crowd close ups at the World Cup

#319

Post by powerapple »

substation13 wrote: post #15
bananapear wrote: post #14

What is the CCP’s exit strategy? Could they feasibly claim to have eradicated covid?

I see two options: 1. Figure out a working vaccine of their own (or maybe just license and rebrand a western one) 2. Become increasingly authoritarian - like a high-tech North Korea

vaccine does not help. The death rate is very low, and mostly old people with some existing conditions. The party is trying to keep the death number lower than what is happening around the world, which is almost impossible.

Re: China state CCTV avoids crowd close ups at the World Cup

#320

Post by [deleted] »

puppymaster wrote: post #45
DiogenesKynikos wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China already has several highly effective vaccines. The problem is that a significant fraction of elderly people don't want to get vaccinated. Taiwan, Hong Kong and Singapore had the exact same problem with vaccine hesitancy among the elderly. It's a cultural thing.

Not Taiwan. 78% of >75 years old has second shot. 70% has 3rd shot. Source: https://covid-19.nchc.org.tw/dt_002-csse_covid_19_daily_repo...

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