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Beyond Meat is struggling, and the plant-based meat industry worries

nytimes.com

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Re: Beyond Meat is struggling, and the plant-based meat industry worries

#51

Post by dagw »

onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #39
lm28469 wrote: post #7

It really is not that complex to understand: You either love meat and won't touch these things with a 10 feet pole or you are vegetarian/vegan and usually take care of what you put in your body, meaning probably a limited amount of junk/processed food, meaning no fake meat substitutes. The market really isn't that big imho, there are already plenty of alternative to meat for most applications, which are cheaper, less…

> You either love meat and won't touch these things with a 10 feet pole Assuming you can afford to eat meat, which many meat eaters might find themselves less able to do if prices continue to climb and/or beef subsidies end. Ground beef could easily cost $15+ per pound without subsidizes: https://www.aier.org/article/the-true-cost-of-a-hamburger/

Assuming you can afford to eat meat

Last I checked, Beyond Burgers cost almost 50% more pr lbs than the cheapest bulk ground beef in the store. If that changed then there might be a market.

Re: Beyond Meat is struggling, and the plant-based meat industry worries

#52

Post by dagw »

senand wrote: post #9
jerojero wrote: post #4

I think this shows us that "technological innovation" solutions are not always the right answer to our problems. I've had these fake-patties and they're good, I've gone to burger king and it's more than good enough. But then again, when I go to the supermarket these are still too expensive compared to regular meat and the flavor profile is not as good. So I they would have to come up with a really killer product, but…

What about a price to CO2 (with equivalence calculation) emission? This would automatically make the (beef) meat significantly more expensive. And it would essentially just put a price on something which costs a price later anyway.

What about a price to CO2

Until that price shows up at the supermarket it is irrelevant.

Re: Beyond Meat is struggling, and the plant-based meat industry worries

#53

Post by ac29 »

jmclnx wrote: post #12
jerojero wrote: post #4

I think this shows us that "technological innovation" solutions are not always the right answer to our problems. I've had these fake-patties and they're good, I've gone to burger king and it's more than good enough. But then again, when I go to the supermarket these are still too expensive compared to regular meat and the flavor profile is not as good. So I they would have to come up with a really killer product, but…

> when I go to the supermarket these are still too expensive compared to regular meat I never looked, but if the above is true, then that is the issue. People will always buy cheap. And to many people, if more expensive than 'real' meat, then they will not buy "beyond meat". Why, real meat in people's mind will always equate to higher quality.

For reference: I looked up prices at a local grocery store just now and Beyond products are in the $12-16/lb range. I've never understood how something that is almost entirely pea/rice protein + vegetable oil can be so expensive.

Re: Beyond Meat is struggling, and the plant-based meat industry worries

#54

Post by zajio1am »

lm28469 wrote: post #7

It really is not that complex to understand: You either love meat and won't touch these things with a 10 feet pole or you are vegetarian/vegan and usually take care of what you put in your body, meaning probably a limited amount of junk/processed food, meaning no fake meat substitutes. The market really isn't that big imho, there are already plenty of alternative to meat for most applications, which are cheaper, less…

> or you are vegetarian/vegan and usually take care of what you put in your body, meaning probably a limited amount of junk/processed food, meaning no fake meat substitutes.

First, for many vegetarians it is primarily moral position, not health position. It does not imply the know or care more about healthy eating.

Second, even people who care for health food, that does not mean they subscribe to junk/processed cultural labels, which are illdefined and often irrelevant to whether the food is healthy or not.

Re: Beyond Meat is struggling, and the plant-based meat industry worries

#55

Post by thereddaikon »

jerojero wrote: post #4

I think this shows us that "technological innovation" solutions are not always the right answer to our problems. I've had these fake-patties and they're good, I've gone to burger king and it's more than good enough. But then again, when I go to the supermarket these are still too expensive compared to regular meat and the flavor profile is not as good. So I they would have to come up with a really killer product, but…

I don't consider eating meat a problem. Its the Vegans who seem to have a problem with it. Not everyone else. And they are a loud minority.

The "problems" with meat have more to do with how the industry operates than the actual practice of eating meat itself. We are omnivorous. And the health issues with meat are overstated by those with an agenda to force their diet on others.

Re: Beyond Meat is struggling, and the plant-based meat industry worries

#56

Post by dagw »

caddemon wrote: post #20
jerojero wrote: post #4

I think this shows us that "technological innovation" solutions are not always the right answer to our problems. I've had these fake-patties and they're good, I've gone to burger king and it's more than good enough. But then again, when I go to the supermarket these are still too expensive compared to regular meat and the flavor profile is not as good. So I they would have to come up with a really killer product, but…

Burger King uses Impossible. You could be right about the business side, but I point this out because I think Impossible is substantially better than Beyond. Like I don't think Beyond could fool a meat eater for a second (and it's not as explicitly their intention), whereas Impossible is pretty damn convincing in certain contexts. Also, Impossible started out strongly focused on the restaurant industry, and AFAIK sti…

Like I don't think Beyond could fool a meat eater for a second

Eaten 'naked', no. Cover it with cheese, bacon, bbq sauce, onions, tomatoes etc. and I think it can easily compare to a Burger King pr McDonald Burger.

Re: Beyond Meat is struggling, and the plant-based meat industry worries

#57

Post by ok123456 »

wishinghand wrote: post #41
ok123456 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pea protein is a garbage incomplete protein too.

You're moving the goalposts here, but neither the person I'm replying to nor you are really providing anything compelling about how unfit these are for consumption.

Wrong. Whether it's pea or soy, it's a distinction without a difference. They're substitutes that really offer no real quantifiable or societal health benefit that make people feel better about their consumption.

Re: Beyond Meat is struggling, and the plant-based meat industry worries

#58

Post by ok123456 »

linsomniac wrote: post #26
ok123456 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or you eat meat, take care of what you in your body, and know these meat substitutes are a gimmick to put "health halos" on highly processed soy products that were formerly just sold to prisons.

For me, and I'm not sure how widespread this opinion is, it's not a health halo. I treat beyond/impossible burgers like I treat beef burgers: an occasional dietary splurge. I like them for a few reasons: more sustainably sourced, signalling with my pocketbook that alternatives are important, getting my kids ok with not eating meat occasionally (meatless Mondays sort of thing).

The main feature then is that these products make you feel better about your consumption.

Re: Beyond Meat is struggling, and the plant-based meat industry worries

#59

Post by stjohnswarts »

gwbas1c wrote: post #32

I married a vegan, and I eat a lot of vegetarian food. (I also still eat plenty of meat, just not every day.) One extremely frustrating aspect of plant meat is that they tried to aggressively push out traditional veggie burgers on restaurant menus. A familiar refrain I've heard in restaurants in the last few years is "we used to have a nice veggie patty, but they replaced it with the beyond/incredible/whatever patty.…

Veggie burgers can be quite delicious with all the traditional burger toppings, and I'm a pretty big traditional burger fan. The beyond ones always taste kind of dry to me.

Re: Beyond Meat is struggling, and the plant-based meat industry worries

#60

Post by brettermeier »

nicpottier wrote: post #44
gwbas1c wrote: post #32

I married a vegan, and I eat a lot of vegetarian food. (I also still eat plenty of meat, just not every day.) One extremely frustrating aspect of plant meat is that they tried to aggressively push out traditional veggie burgers on restaurant menus. A familiar refrain I've heard in restaurants in the last few years is "we used to have a nice veggie patty, but they replaced it with the beyond/incredible/whatever patty.…

I disagree. I much prefer a Beyond pattie to more traditional veggie options. It is quite literally a matter of taste though, so you aren't wrong, but your perspective is just your own.

I agree with OP. Fake patties taste like... erm... But a nice veggie patty with peas, corn and stuff is great.

Maybe I agree, that this modern crappy fake food is make by meat eaters for people who try to not eat so much meat, but they forgot that a normal veggie patty doesn't need to taste like meat.

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