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South Asian people undergo type 2 diabetes remission with low calorie diets

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Re: South Asian people undergo type 2 diabetes remission with low calorie diets

#131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Losing 1kg a week is not "about appropriate", it's pretty much the maximum. And water weight, fecal residues, etc vary so much day by day. Were yours so constant insofar to be able to track it accurately to the grams?

I have lost 1 kg per week during almost a year, with a considerable health improvement at the end and no negative effects, except obviously, the hunger. At the time I have studied a lot the existing medical literature, and this was the recommended rate, so I have adjusted the diet so that the weight loss per day would oscillate around 140 g per day. The weight must be measured every day in the same physiological cond…

The average recommended amount is usually about 2 kg a month, actually. 4 kg is absolutely massive and I don't think it's sustainable for most people.

I eat the same stuff every day, weighing myself after going to the bathroom, etc, yet my weight easily varies at least 500 g from one day to the other. And if I eat just a little bit more carbs in a weekend, then well, it's like 2 kg of extra water weight on Monday.

Re: South Asian people undergo type 2 diabetes remission with low calorie diets

#132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They sound miserable, though, is what I'm saying. How are VLCD people expected to do any sort of fitness or do any sort of mentally taxing labor if they're hungry and running on little nutrition basically all of the time for months? That seems totally unreasonable unless we send obese people to some kind of clinic like we do for addicts, and then how do they adapt back into the real world? Are there any actual studie…

> I was always told crash diets fuck you up for years. How can this be true and also people are apparently starving for months and that's totally fine? It is not true.

> It is not true.

Many people experience that and scientists/doctors agree. In addition there is a risk of higher mortality.

https://journals.physiology.org/doi/full/10.1152/physiol.000...

"Many men and women in the United States diet to lose BW; however, most regain the weight they lost after the diet ends (73). Dr. Kelly D. Brownell coined the term “yo-yo dieting” to reflect BW fluctuations during repeated cycles of diet-induced weight loss and BW gain after the diet is terminated (74). Approximately 20–55% of women and 18–34% of men report weight cycling (75–77). What remains unclear is the impact of weight cycling on cardiovascular health.

Several large studies, including the Honolulu Heart Program (78), the Framingham Heart Study (79), and >9,500 participants in a Treating to New Targets trial (80), have shown a strong correlation between BW fluctuation and rate of cardiovascular events that are independent of traditional cardiovascular risk factors.

A recent meta-analysis of >440,000 participants from 23 studies showed that BW cycling was associated with a 1.4-fold higher relative risk of mortality due to all causes and to cardiovascular disease. The meta-analysis also revealed that BW cycling was associated with 1.4-fold and 1.5-fold higher relative risk of hypertension and CVD morbidity, respectively"

Re: South Asian people undergo type 2 diabetes remission with low calorie diets

#133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Isn’t this obvious? Please consider wondering why no doctors/scientist know how to heal people with diabetes. Do they miss something obvious?

While not exactly obvious, this has been known for a while now. It even became the position statement of the American College of Lifestyle Medicine to restrict calories as a way to induce remission: > Studies with therapeutic dosing typically used very low energy diets (600-1100 kcal/day) with a weighted mean remission rate of 49.4%, while studies with subtherapeutic dosing typically used more moderate caloric restri…

VLCD diet intervention is associated with improvement in glycaemia control in patients with Type 2 Diabetes. It does not mean it heals from diabetes.

If fasting was a solution, Muslims would experience less diabetes. Yet the prevalence of diabetes in several countries with large Muslim populations appears to be similar to the rates observed in western countries and increasing by 10% per year as a result of urbanization and socioeconomic development.

https://diabetesjournals.org/care/article/27/10/2306/23219/A...

Re: South Asian people undergo type 2 diabetes remission with low calorie diets

#134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have lost 1 kg per week during almost a year, with a considerable health improvement at the end and no negative effects, except obviously, the hunger. At the time I have studied a lot the existing medical literature, and this was the recommended rate, so I have adjusted the diet so that the weight loss per day would oscillate around 140 g per day. The weight must be measured every day in the same physiological cond…

The average recommended amount is usually about 2 kg a month, actually. 4 kg is absolutely massive and I don't think it's sustainable for most people. I eat the same stuff every day, weighing myself after going to the bathroom, etc, yet my weight easily varies at least 500 g from one day to the other. And if I eat just a little bit more carbs in a weekend, then well, it's like 2 kg of extra water weight on Monday.

The recommended rate of losing weight might have changed meanwhile.

I have lost weight (from around 120 kg to around 76 kg) about 15 years ago.

Nevertheless, I believe that if care is taken so that the calorie-restricted diet still includes a normal amount of all nutrients except carbohydrates and non-essential fat, 4 kg per month, like I did, should not cause any health problems.

Unfortunately, I have seen too many suggestions about how to lose weight that do not pay enough attention to provide all nutrients. Such diets can be sustained for a few weeks, but not for longer durations, like a year or more, which are needed when the required weight loss is great.

My weight can vary from day to day exactly as much as yours, but nowadays it rarely does.

The main difference between how I eat now and how I was eating before losing weight is that previously I was eating until feeling sated, but now I always decide how much to eat before starting to eat, so for most days the energy intake is similar, so the weight oscillations are small. When I happen to eat a more copious meal, I compensate the next day, mainly by cutting the carbohydrates during that day.

Re: South Asian people undergo type 2 diabetes remission with low calorie diets

#135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I was always told crash diets fuck you up for years. How can this be true and also people are apparently starving for months and that's totally fine? It is not true.

> It is not true. Many people experience that and scientists/doctors agree. In addition there is a risk of higher mortality. https://journals.physiology.org/doi/full/10.1152/physiol.000... " Many men and women in the United States diet to lose BW; however, most regain the weight they lost after the diet ends (73). Dr. Kelly D. Brownell coined the term “yo-yo dieting” to reflect BW fluctuations during repeated cycles…

What that means is that if you crash diet and then eat at the exessive rate again your body won't be able to handle it. Eating at the excesive rate is already a risk for cardiovascular health. What the user here said is that "crash diets fuck you up for years" which is not true. There is a refeeding stage that is necessary after weight loss is completed. And even then one should never return to overeating.

To give an extreme parallel, when heroin adicts recover, if they go back they will die much faster becasue their dosage needed for a hit is almost as high it was at the peak but their liver is not strong enough because it shrunk durring their recovery as it wasn't abused as much.

Re: South Asian people undergo type 2 diabetes remission with low calorie diets

#136
post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At what point would you stop considering intermittent fasting or keto to be fad diets?

At no point, same with Atkins, Paleo, Jordy P's "steak only" diet and the rest. Fad diets are simply what they are.

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

Re: South Asian people undergo type 2 diabetes remission with low calorie diets

#137
post #31
post #18

I read a transcript of an endocrinologist suggesting intermittent fasting (don’t eat after 6 and wait as long as you can before your first meal - start with 10am and keep pushing back as long as you can). Then eat only veggies for your first meal, then veggies and a deck of cards serving of meat for dinner. Honestly, it sounds very difficult, but the doctor seemed very confident that this works. I have started trying…

C-f fasting You never disappoint, Hackernews.

Indeed. Kudos to HN for being enlightened on this issue.

Re: South Asian people undergo type 2 diabetes remission with low calorie diets

#138
post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is definitely an exception, one would be deficient in just about every (micro)nutrient and therefore expire much faster than a normal human. While also being much more miserable.

Oh, I guess we're taking this candy diet suggestion far more seriously than I originally thought. It wouldn't require a whole lot of thought to come up with an all candy diet that supplied the minimum necessary nutrition. How broad is our definition of "candy" for this? Are you willing to consider candied fruits, vegetables, and bacon? Chocolate covered things? How much dark chocolate would we have to add to somethin…

Well put, now you have me wanting to try this candy diet.

Re: South Asian people undergo type 2 diabetes remission with low calorie diets

#139
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought this was common knowledge. Type 2 diabetes is 100% reversible through diet.

Early Type 2 is generally reversible through diet, but untreated you can suffer irreversible harm.

This is correct.

Further, I don't know what it has to do with race - all humans respond to low calorie diets in the same way. There is the case of lactic intolerance due to loss of a particular gene. I'm not aware of any similar gene being involved in insulin intolerance.

Re: South Asian people undergo type 2 diabetes remission with low calorie diets

#140
post #6

There's a long history of studies showing Low-Calorie Diets as being effective for reversing T2D. The late Sarah Hallberg wrote a narrative review that I liked a lot a couple years back (see section 3.2 for the part on LCDs): https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6520897/ Hallberg SJ, Gershuni VM, Hazbun TL, Athinarayanan SJ. Reversing Type 2 Diabetes: A Narrative Review of the Evidence. Nutrients. 2019 Apr 1;…

> Furthermore, long-term achievement of diabetes remission, adherence to the diet, and weight loss maintenance after the diet remain a challenge. Studies have also suggested that physiological and metabolic adaptation of the body in response to caloric restriction may shift energy balance and hormonal regulation of weight toward weight regain after weight loss [67,68]. Thus, it is crucial that future studies are dire…

I actually have a different take on what the "basic" problem is, having done a fair amount of research (reading a lot of biomed research & studies over the past few years) and personally effecting (and more or less maintaining) a huge improvement in my own metabolic health. [1]

To me, it seems obvious that sustaining a low calorie diet (LCD) long-term is basically impossible (from a maximal fat oxidation and, even a thermodynamics perspective). On the bio-mechanistic side, it's also important to note that hyperinsulemia inhibits lipolysis [2], which is one factor that is also usually not taken into consideration. Anyway, while a LCD may be effective for a while (maybe even years), it's probably quite miserable and almost by definition, can't be a sustainable lifestyle change. Even as a short term fix, it may not a very healthy and might be counter-productive long term... [3]

To me, the biggest problem is that T2D is in many (but, to be clear, not all) cases, the end stage of a metabolic patho-physiology that can be identified by other markers (as simple as WtHR, or cheap labs like fasting insulin, or NAFLD indices) that are cheap and easy to measure, but from my experience, most clinicians are completely unaware of this. Which is too bad, since the overwhelming majority of their patients in the US these days (over 80%) are suffering from metabolic diseases. [4]

Over the years (I moved a lot) I've had close to a dozen different primary care providers, and diligently did my annual health checks, all while slowly putting a couple pounds each year and none of them were able to give any useful treatment or even medical advice as my MetS markers crept up. I had to figure it out myself - in fact most gave bad advice and weren't even measuring or diagnosing the right markers. The real kicker to me is how cheap some of these tests are (fasting insulin is I'll also mention that both from the literature [5] and my personal experience [1], some of the worst damage can be reversed in a matter of weeks. I did labs right before I started my diet changes and 1-month in, and even in a single month my TGs and my liver numbers moved from unhealthy to healthy ranges.

As for sustainability, there are some lifestyle treatments like Virta's that have shown better than medication retention rates and efficacy, so it's possible to do... https://www.virtahealth.com/outcomes

How do they do it? A combination of responsive/actionable biomarker monitoring/feedback coupled long-term coaching and peer-support groups. Not impossible and way cheaper (and better quality of life!) than any pharmaceutical alternatives.

[1] https://randomfoo.net/2019/09/17/1-year-personal-health-inte...

[2] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3753874/

[3] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4989512/

[4] https://www.liebertpub.com/doi/10.1089/met.2018.0105

[5] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5813289/

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