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Ask HN: How is your company training you to become a better developer/engineer?

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Re: Ask HN: How is your company training you to become a better developer/engineer?

#111

Post by flavianh »

yogini wrote: post #15

I have been a part of training sessions in my previous organisations, but in my opinion, training will not create a 10x engineers. Why? Most of the training sessions I attended or used to happen in my organisation were on very general topics. All these topics can be easily learnt via any other medium like youtube. Instead, I have seen pair programming or code-reviews making better engineers. The organisation used to…

I'm actually curious about this, so I've just asked one of the best developers at Google. If you want to tag along and make some noise: https://twitter.com/FlavianHautbois/status/15972300521436733... (he has not replied yet)

Re: Ask HN: How is your company training you to become a better developer/engineer?

#112

Post by flavianh »

kristiandupont wrote: post #14
flavianh wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I found it to be very challenging to deep-dive into harder subjects when doing pairing

Why? To me, pairing is exhausting, so I don't like to do it too often but I almost always feel more than twice as productive and I feel like I am better able to dig into the hard stuff easier.

Your comment got me curious, so I've just asked one of the best developers at Google. If you want to tag along and make some noise: https://twitter.com/FlavianHautbois/status/15972300521436733... (he has not replied yet) [FYI, I sent this comment to another thread as well]

Re: Ask HN: How is your company training you to become a better developer/engineer?

#113

Post by rovr138 »

jstx1 wrote: post #77
zmxz wrote: post #65

You can't "create" 10x engineer. You either have work ethic or you don't. If you have the work ethic, if you're disciplined, if you genuinely enjoy programming and the feature/software you work on - then you have the capacity to be better than engineers who enter this line of work purely and only for the money. That's what makes the difference. And no company can make you like the software you're making, to be discip…

As someone with ADHD, it’s kind of sad that I’ll hit some career ceiling because I can’t get myself to put in the work.

As someone with ADHD, find a job that works for you.

For me, the way teams are structured where I worked there where 2 sides, build and support.

Build focuses on new builds. One project, until it's launched. That didn't work for me.

Support is projects that are already launched that need new things built out, maintenance, etc.

New builds is usually backend dev, front end and one that can do a bit of both. Support usually has a dev per 5 clients.

I loved being in the support side and floating to new build as needed for my expertise. While most other teams have a dev per 5 clients, I was able to automate parts of the maintenance and by myself I handled 35 clients.

I worked with the leadership at the company. I was able to create my own department afterwards. I had the ears of everyone.

With 35 clients, I was switching all the time. Priorities shift. Goals shift. It was great for my ADHD brain. Blast some fast paced music and start my day.

-----

Find what works for you. Do you need to switch it up often? Do you need things written out and longer projects? How does your ADHD brain work?

Re: Ask HN: How is your company training you to become a better developer/engineer?

#114

Post by ParetoOptimal »

autotune wrote: post #109
jstx1 wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone with ADHD, it’s kind of sad that I’ll hit some career ceiling because I can’t get myself to put in the work.

ADHD isn't really an excuse. I have ADD. The only thing that separates me from someone who doesn't is it takes 20-30 minutes or so of being distracted before getting into "hyper focus" mode and getting things done. Yeah, it took some more time to find a gig I liked because I can't focus on bullshit, but now that I have it I am able to get the some work done by the time standup hits as any other individual.

> ADHD isn't really an excuse. I have ADD. The only thing that separates me from someone who doesn't is it takes 20-30 minutes or so of being distracted before getting into "hyper focus" mode and getting things done.

This works for some things but not all for me. Also there is no universal add or adhd experience.

For me the difference between work ethic on adhd meds versus without is night and day.

I'm not lazy without them, it's just all of my energy can get consumed by a million other things than the task at hand.

Re: Ask HN: How is your company training you to become a better developer/engineer?

#115

Post by randomdata »

theshrike79 wrote: post #105
randomdata wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a dumb 10x engineer, I once tried being on the job 1/10th the hours of my colleagues and I still ended up outproducing them by an order of magnitude. I failed to account for the fact that they waste a lot of time doing unrelated tasks, like meetings, leaving only a fraction of their day to get anything done.

For some of us meetings are 90% of the job. I mostly integrate with other teams' services. Most of my time is talking with them (in "Meetings") about their API and reading through their documentation. Code is like 10% of my week, maybe 20-25% if I'm starting with a fresh service.

Mine too these days. Further proof of my dumbness.

It's amusing that we can integrate with open source APIs without any trouble, even when there is often much more complexity involved, without ever talking to the person/people behind it, but as soon as its within a single organization it becomes a game to find pointless busy work to fill the hours.

Re: Ask HN: How is your company training you to become a better developer/engineer?

#116

Post by SuoDuanDao »

Not sure how well my company does at this - our software division is quite small - but I think more than training the special sauce is a high-trust environment. I think that mostly because while I've never seen a 1X programmer become a 10X programmer, I have seen the reverse when trust between colleagues soured.

Here's my reasoning why the reverse would work also: Most comments on here that acknowledge the 10X programmer is a real phenomenon agree it's not about speed of writing but understanding the business's needs and finding the optimal solution, not coding the obvious one 10X as quickly. That requires a workplace where people feel safe thinking outside the box.

Much of this idea comes from this speech by John Cleese: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pb5oIIPO62g

Re: Ask HN: How is your company training you to become a better developer/engineer?

#117

Post by ParetoOptimal »

zmxz wrote: post #80
jstx1 wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone with ADHD, it’s kind of sad that I’ll hit some career ceiling because I can’t get myself to put in the work.

That sounds like quitting before even trying. If I were you, I'd first exhaust every possible option I have at my disposal to become better before calling it quits. You might have ADHD but you can also adjust to it and work around it. Don't call it quit until you literally exhaust everything you can.

> You might have ADHD but you can also adjust to it and work around it.

Most can't really work around it in the sense I think you mean.

If everyone else prioritizing and doing work us like walking, for someone with ADHD it's like walking underwater.

Not only is it much harder but:

- it looks and feels ineffective

- you have to stop progress to come up for air iften

- when comparing to others it's easy to feel lazy and get demotivated

Re: Ask HN: How is your company training you to become a better developer/engineer?

#118

Post by mylons »

randomdata wrote: post #79
mylons wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

how is that dumb of you? even as a salaried employee your time is ultimately what you’re selling to your employer. you just reduced your cost of goods by 10.

Well, I could have also put in 1/10th of the work, not just 1/10th of the hours, and matched their output. Also, I'm just naturally dumb.

lowering the quality effects the perception of the quality of your product. i don’t think it’s smart to do that.

i’m curious if you’re being facetious, though, due to a possible resentment of your co workers. IF you’re doing that, remember you’re just being paid to do YOUR job. management knows who the performers are.

Re: Ask HN: How is your company training you to become a better developer/engineer?

#119

Post by randomdata »

mylons wrote: post #118
randomdata wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, I could have also put in 1/10th of the work, not just 1/10th of the hours, and matched their output. Also, I'm just naturally dumb.

lowering the quality effects the perception of the quality of your product. i don’t think it’s smart to do that. i’m curious if you’re being facetious, though, due to a possible resentment of your co workers. IF you’re doing that, remember you’re just being paid to do YOUR job. management knows who the performers are.

Why would quality be reduced? Producing 1x output can still be of high quality.

What kind of resentment would there be towards my coworkers? I am not sure where feelings would be coming into play at all, let alone ill feelings.

Re: Ask HN: How is your company training you to become a better developer/engineer?

#120

Post by ParetoOptimal »

misja111 wrote: post #99
jstx1 wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone with ADHD, it’s kind of sad that I’ll hit some career ceiling because I can’t get myself to put in the work.

It's not as much about putting in the work, but it's about putting in the right work and at the right moment. I've know some brilliant programmers with ADHD. They were perhaps not always the most active behind their computer, but when it mattered they got more work done than everybody else.

> It's not as much about putting in the work, but it's about putting in the right work and at the right moment.

A lot of truth here. Many times it's nigh impossible to work at 8am, but at 2pm I can nearly always be productive.

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