Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The entire crypto ecosystem is a ponzi

coppolacomment.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

161–170 of 268 posts

Re: The entire crypto ecosystem is a ponzi

#161

Post by everfree »

lamontcg wrote: post #138
glennvtx wrote: post #16

This is a terrible argument, and clickbait. Obvious enough to anyone who actually understands how bitcoin, or eth work, it does not fit the definition of a ponzi scheme. Most tech stocks fit the definition better. Just because a few centralized banks, (FTX, centralized crypto exchanges are banks) have failed, means nothing, since the original idea of cryptocurrency was to do away with centralized institutions like th…

> Most tech stocks fit the definition better. The fact that the stock market has almost forgotten about dividends and bubble mechanics have taken over the tech sector isn't a real counter example. That is also bad.

If that is also bad, then why don't we see more news pieces about how tech stocks are a ponzi?

Re: The entire crypto ecosystem is a ponzi

#163

Post by everfree »

ifeeltriedboss wrote: post #57
lrvick wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Early banks failed all the time. Give it another decade or so for regulation to start mandating accountability.

Banks failed because they weren't regulated. If we regulate crypto, whole crypto premise is lost. So what's the point?

We can regulate crypto banks, which is what these failed institutions were, without the premise of crypto being lost.

There's a difference between regulating the institutions that hold crypto customer deposits, compared to regulating the crypto networks themselves.

Re: The entire crypto ecosystem is a ponzi

#164

Post by bb88 »

TacticalCoder wrote: post #153

> The entire crypto ecosystem is a ponzi That remains to be seen (for example I'm crossing fingers Brian Armstrong, the CEO of Coinbase, which is an HN unicorn, ain't at the head of a ponzi) but meanwhile something is certain: SBF was running a Ponzi (guaranteeing insane returns using previous investors and people's money: yup, that's a plain ponzi). And he was lying in nearly every single of his tweet, up to a few d…

Coinbase's stock value is down 86% in the past year.

BTC lost more money this year than people did by just holding cash even at 7% inflation.

Tether was banned by NY State from operating there, and also may be actually insolvent.

FTX went belly up due to a ponzi. QuadrigaCX did the same thing before it.

Rug pulls are common in the NFT world.

Smart contracts are written to be too smart for normal investor people to follow them. Or not smart enough to keep hackers from manipulating them.

Re: The entire crypto ecosystem is a ponzi

#165

Post by safetybox »

jeremyjh wrote: post #85
monero-xmr wrote: post #18

Cryptocurrency in its purest is money not issued or controlled by a government. Instead the supply inflation is controlled by transparent rules that are plain to see. “Protocol-based finance” vs. the existing government-based finance. Now there are all manner of divergences from the above paragraph. Coins that are totally controlled and issued by a small group or company. Black box rules rather than transparent. Ther…

It isn't money. Money can be easily exchanged for goods and services. It is a digital "asset" whose only meaningful application is speculative trading...of itself. If something only has value because you think you can sell it to the next sucker for more, it is a ponzi scheme.

Since clearly you can buy things for Bitcoin, it is money.

You can speculate on the value of any currency. I’ve earned thousands extra this year by invoicing foreign currencies at the right time, at no loss of my customers.

Bitcoin only has value for me because of the things I can buy with Bitcoin. (Privacy preserving technology, online services, drugs, helping friends of friends get out of Ukraine.)

Re: The entire crypto ecosystem is a ponzi

#166

Post by koonsolo »

stephc_int13 wrote: post #86

The success of crypto is very strange/alien to me. The scam seems so obvious, and yet it "works". I guess that I tend to underestimate how many people love gambling with money and/or are attracted to get-rich-quick schemes. There is seemingly also a small fraction of true believers, idealists and evangelists who seem convinced that all of this could replace both states and banks without ending up much worse.

It always surprises me how a tech/startup oriented forum like HN is so negative towards crypto.

I think it's insane that someone invented an algorithm to transfer value over the internet, without the involvement of a central party. Basically as soon as it has a tiny bit of value, you can transfer it, and so it has value.

It goes so far that you could store the private key in your head, and therefore use your head as basically a bank account, only accessible to you.

Plus, if you're living in Hong Kong and want to get paid for something the government thinks is illegal, you can always get paid in Monero, like this guy: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31996612

Ok, you want to focus on all the scams and get-rich-quick schemes. It's more than that you know.

Re: The entire crypto ecosystem is a ponzi

#167

Post by everfree »

Trasmatta wrote: post #160
everfree wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> unless you jumped through all the necessary hoops to also anonymize it There's a single hoop, and it's Monero. It always confuses me when people say that crypto doesn't excel at buying drugs online. Out of all the things crypto does and does not do well, that one shouldn't be in dispute.

Then Monero is good at buying drugs, not crypto in general

The milk section of the supermarket is a good place to buy milk. Not the supermarket in general.

Re: The entire crypto ecosystem is a ponzi

#168

Post by stickfigure »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #91
stickfigure wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eh? When did they ban cash?

> When did they ban cash? We monitor large cash transactions, and don’t let randos print. We also restrict who can facilitate transmitting it and under what rules. We further made securities fraud, wire fraud and money laundering illegal, a trifecta of crimes most people working in crypto facilitate.

What I notice: We guarantee a monopoly for visa and mastercard, ensure that transactions cost 3-4% for everyone, and make sure that money requires days to move between accounts.

The state of transaction processing in this country is hot garbage. I'm not claiming that crypto is the answer, but I sure as hell don't think our society has arrived at any sort of best solution. I'm personally fine with a lot more "crime" (aka transactions you personally don't approve of) if it gets us a better financial system.

Re: The entire crypto ecosystem is a ponzi

#169

Post by __jem »

everfree wrote: post #126
__jem wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It absolutely does entitle you to profits, either in the form of dividends or stock buybacks.

If Google decided to keep their profits on their balance sheet instead of paying dividends or doing buybacks, what would my recourse be? I can't just vote in a dividend, because founders Larry and Sergey control 51% of the voting power. Shares don't entitle you to profits at all.

Just because I can't walk into Google headquarters and demand a dividend doesn't mean that I don't still own some portion of those profits. Yes, finance is complicated, but there's no corporate board on this planet that would accept indefinite stockpiling of cash, which is why buybacks happen, including for Google!

Re: The entire crypto ecosystem is a ponzi

#170

Post by stephc_int13 »

koonsolo wrote: post #166
stephc_int13 wrote: post #86

The success of crypto is very strange/alien to me. The scam seems so obvious, and yet it "works". I guess that I tend to underestimate how many people love gambling with money and/or are attracted to get-rich-quick schemes. There is seemingly also a small fraction of true believers, idealists and evangelists who seem convinced that all of this could replace both states and banks without ending up much worse.

It always surprises me how a tech/startup oriented forum like HN is so negative towards crypto. I think it's insane that someone invented an algorithm to transfer value over the internet, without the involvement of a central party. Basically as soon as it has a tiny bit of value, you can transfer it, and so it has value. It goes so far that you could store the private key in your head, and therefore use your head as…

Is it though?

I am pretty sure that building an anonymous payment system for illegal trades is possible without crypto.

I have not seen a legitimate use of crypto yet. Not even once.

Post reply on HN