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The entire crypto ecosystem is a ponzi

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Re: The entire crypto ecosystem is a ponzi

#101

Post by mkipper »

everfree wrote: post #23
chrisgd wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think that is true at all. There is economic value in a piece of equity in google. The price someone is willing to pay for it changes frequently. Crypto is closer to art than anything else. I get less value from a rothko than someone else may

> There is economic value in a piece of equity in google. It doesn't entitle you to profits, it doesn't entitle you to assets (except in bankruptcy), you can't eat it, and it's only worth what other people will pay you for it. Unlike a rothko, I can't hang it in my living room. Where's the value?

If Google stock were really worthless, someone could buy all of it for pennies and do whatever they want with the company. Owning and controlling a company with $80B yearly profits isn’t worth anything to you?

A single Google share isn’t really worth anything on its own. But its value is tied to the collective value of _all_ Google shares, which _are_ worth something.

Re: The entire crypto ecosystem is a ponzi

#102

Post by lrvick »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #46
lrvick wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is economic value in inflation resistance, censorship resistance, and privacy. The fact most get-rich-traders do not care about these things and -also- speculate is irrelevant to the fundamental value.

> inflation resistance Bitcoin hyperinflated in the last year.

There is a fixed total amount of Bitcoin that will ever exist, and they are released the the market over time. Bitcoin is not inflationary.

Re: The entire crypto ecosystem is a ponzi

#103

Post by bbbbb5 »

jeremyjh wrote: post #85
monero-xmr wrote: post #18

Cryptocurrency in its purest is money not issued or controlled by a government. Instead the supply inflation is controlled by transparent rules that are plain to see. “Protocol-based finance” vs. the existing government-based finance. Now there are all manner of divergences from the above paragraph. Coins that are totally controlled and issued by a small group or company. Black box rules rather than transparent. Ther…

It isn't money. Money can be easily exchanged for goods and services. It is a digital "asset" whose only meaningful application is speculative trading...of itself. If something only has value because you think you can sell it to the next sucker for more, it is a ponzi scheme.

Cryptocurrency can easily be exchanged for a whole lot of goods and services.

Re: The entire crypto ecosystem is a ponzi

#104

Post by jeremyjh »

Trasmatta wrote: post #74
monero-xmr wrote: post #18

Cryptocurrency in its purest is money not issued or controlled by a government. Instead the supply inflation is controlled by transparent rules that are plain to see. “Protocol-based finance” vs. the existing government-based finance. Now there are all manner of divergences from the above paragraph. Coins that are totally controlled and issued by a small group or company. Black box rules rather than transparent. Ther…

Crypto doesn't even excel at buying drugs online. The fact that it's a permanent ledger of transactions means the purchase could be trivially linked to you by law enforcement, unless you jumped through all the necessary hoops to also anonymize it. Which most people don't.

This is why I invested in Monero years ago, when it was under a dollar. I concluded that since the only actual application of crypto up to that time was selling illegal goods and services on black markets like silk road, that it was really the only coin that made sense at the time (I'm sure others replicated it). AFAIK it is still considered untraceable, but the value peeked years ago around $400 IIRC. I made some decent money on it though and still HODL some.

Re: The entire crypto ecosystem is a ponzi

#105

Post by monero-xmr »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #72
monero-xmr wrote: post #18

Cryptocurrency in its purest is money not issued or controlled by a government. Instead the supply inflation is controlled by transparent rules that are plain to see. “Protocol-based finance” vs. the existing government-based finance. Now there are all manner of divergences from the above paragraph. Coins that are totally controlled and issued by a small group or company. Black box rules rather than transparent. Ther…

> Does this make the entire industry a Ponzi? No, the things you mentioned don’t. The argument the article made, that almost all the dollars and euros and yen crypto spits out come from investment, does. That some people are buying drugs and financing terrorism or Pyongyang dilutes the Ponzi case. Those are examples of utility. But I’m not sure that’s the defence crypto was looking for.

Stablecoins such as USDC and Tether (although despised by many) are used for non-criminal cross border transfers and savings accounts. Here is a recent episode of EconTalk that explains the use case in Argentina https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/econtalk/id135066958?i...

Re: The entire crypto ecosystem is a ponzi

#106

Post by [deleted] »

monero-xmr wrote: post #18

Cryptocurrency in its purest is money not issued or controlled by a government. Instead the supply inflation is controlled by transparent rules that are plain to see. “Protocol-based finance” vs. the existing government-based finance. Now there are all manner of divergences from the above paragraph. Coins that are totally controlled and issued by a small group or company. Black box rules rather than transparent. Ther…

[deleted]

Re: The entire crypto ecosystem is a ponzi

#107

Post by JumpCrisscross »

kordlessagain wrote: post #83
glennvtx wrote: post #16

This is a terrible argument, and clickbait. Obvious enough to anyone who actually understands how bitcoin, or eth work, it does not fit the definition of a ponzi scheme. Most tech stocks fit the definition better. Just because a few centralized banks, (FTX, centralized crypto exchanges are banks) have failed, means nothing, since the original idea of cryptocurrency was to do away with centralized institutions like th…

An ecosystem is a centralized entity. Sure, Bitcoin is useful when used in a decentralized manner. However, when it becomes consolidated in an exchange or other controlling entity, the risk associated to those values will move out of line with the common consensus. For example, there are whales that move the crypto markets in wide swings to their advantage, and those centralized controls risk everything (increase ris…

> an ecosystem is a centralized entity

This is the opposite of the canonical ecosystem [1].

[1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecosystem

Re: The entire crypto ecosystem is a ponzi

#108

Post by bb88 »

monero-xmr wrote: post #92
Trasmatta wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Crypto doesn't even excel at buying drugs online. The fact that it's a permanent ledger of transactions means the purchase could be trivially linked to you by law enforcement, unless you jumped through all the necessary hoops to also anonymize it. Which most people don't.

Have you looked into monero? https://getmonero.org/

So are you saying monero can solve the planetary crisis of users not being able to buy illicit drugs online?

Re: The entire crypto ecosystem is a ponzi

#109

Post by monero-xmr »

jeremyjh wrote: post #85
monero-xmr wrote: post #18

Cryptocurrency in its purest is money not issued or controlled by a government. Instead the supply inflation is controlled by transparent rules that are plain to see. “Protocol-based finance” vs. the existing government-based finance. Now there are all manner of divergences from the above paragraph. Coins that are totally controlled and issued by a small group or company. Black box rules rather than transparent. Ther…

It isn't money. Money can be easily exchanged for goods and services. It is a digital "asset" whose only meaningful application is speculative trading...of itself. If something only has value because you think you can sell it to the next sucker for more, it is a ponzi scheme.

If your definition of money = using something for goods and services, the crypto has certainly exceeded that definition.

Re: The entire crypto ecosystem is a ponzi

#110

Post by JumpCrisscross »

monero-xmr wrote: post #105
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Does this make the entire industry a Ponzi? No, the things you mentioned don’t. The argument the article made, that almost all the dollars and euros and yen crypto spits out come from investment, does. That some people are buying drugs and financing terrorism or Pyongyang dilutes the Ponzi case. Those are examples of utility. But I’m not sure that’s the defence crypto was looking for.

Stablecoins such as USDC and Tether (although despised by many) are used for non-criminal cross border transfers and savings accounts. Here is a recent episode of EconTalk that explains the use case in Argentina https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/econtalk/id135066958?i...

> USDC and Tether (although despised by many) are used for non-criminal cross border transfers and savings accounts

One of these is almost certainly a fraud. The other provides utility, but largely in sidestepping money-laundering and banking rules.

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