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U.S. bans equipment from Huawei and ZTE, citing national security concerns

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Re: U.S. bans equipment from Huawei and ZTE, citing national security concerns

#241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People used to say same exact thing about russian gas

How does Russian gas relate to the fear of backdoors?

Reliance for critical infrastructure on a geopolitical enemy.

Historians often site “The Great Illusion” which was written in 1909 and predicted there would be no more major or prolonged wars due to the new global and interconnected economy. Clearly that was wrong and yet the same argument keeps being made with regard to China.

China has made it clear they consider “the West” as an enemy. We should not trust any infrastructure to them.

Re: U.S. bans equipment from Huawei and ZTE, citing national security concerns

#242
post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>We should not buy anything that is internet connected from a country we cannot trust. We should not buy anything that has non-dumb components from a country we cannot trust. We should not buy anything that is has high-performance materials that cannot be non-destructively tested from a country we cannot trust. Overall, we should not be buying ANYTHING AT ALL from a country we cannot trust, as literally any trade mer…

> It is past time to embargo them. Easier said than done when they are the dominant or at least major supplier of many strategic materials. It will take time to find economically viable alternative suppliers. Globalism is rapidly collapsing and China won’t for long be able to remain a reliable trading partner even if they desperately wanted to be, so we ought to be urgently securing sufficient alternative suppliers a…

Yes, definitely easier said than done.

That said, you are absolutely correct that it'll be a heavy lift to find alternate supplies of many materials and items.

That makes it no less necessary.

Germany had made apparently catastrophic reliance on Russian NatGas, and looked like a horrible winter. Yet they have extricated themselves within 10 months so much that even without that Russian supply, NatGas prices are actually falling going into winter.

It is necessary.

Re: U.S. bans equipment from Huawei and ZTE, citing national security concerns

#243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does Russian gas relate to the fear of backdoors?

Reliance for critical infrastructure on a geopolitical enemy. Historians often site “The Great Illusion” which was written in 1909 and predicted there would be no more major or prolonged wars due to the new global and interconnected economy. Clearly that was wrong and yet the same argument keeps being made with regard to China. China has made it clear they consider “the West” as an enemy. We should not trust any infr…

I still don't see a logical relation with my previous comment:

"I don't see what they could possibly gain, all it would take is for one genuine case of a backdoor to be confirmed and then all that investment would be nearly worthless."

And your previous comment: "People used to say same exact thing about russian gas"

I'm struggling to find any analogous situation to a single verified breech of trust destroying billions of investments in the gas sector of Russia.

One shipment of contaminated gas (?) is not going to have any major effects on the gas trade.

Re: U.S. bans equipment from Huawei and ZTE, citing national security concerns

#244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reliance for critical infrastructure on a geopolitical enemy. Historians often site “The Great Illusion” which was written in 1909 and predicted there would be no more major or prolonged wars due to the new global and interconnected economy. Clearly that was wrong and yet the same argument keeps being made with regard to China. China has made it clear they consider “the West” as an enemy. We should not trust any infr…

I still don't see a logical relation with my previous comment: "I don't see what they could possibly gain, all it would take is for one genuine case of a backdoor to be confirmed and then all that investment would be nearly worthless." And your previous comment: "People used to say same exact thing about russian gas" I'm struggling to find any analogous situation to a single verified breech of trust destroying billio…

> I'm struggling to find any analogous situation to a single verified breech of trust destroying billions of investments in the gas sector of Russia.

Struggle no longer - https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/kremlin-says-gazprom...

Re: U.S. bans equipment from Huawei and ZTE, citing national security concerns

#245
post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't it obvious why it's so much cheaper? Their pricing for market share and cutting costs wherever they can in terms of labour conditions. I don't see how spending many billions on R&D to develop the most intricately hidden backdoors in human history (that no one has been able to offer proof for) and eating that cost to deploy them when it will all become worthless the moment the first one is detected, makes any se…

"western" tech is made in the same factories.

You mean the ones in the country of Taiwan?

Re: U.S. bans equipment from Huawei and ZTE, citing national security concerns

#246
post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an US citizen “tech person”, I absolutely cheer this on.

Not using it government/critical telecom makes sense but other but a general rule seems like a big overreach.

Stopping consumer IP cameras being used as a mass surveillance operation on US citizens by a hostile foreign government does not seem like an overreach.

Re: U.S. bans equipment from Huawei and ZTE, citing national security concerns

#247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is silly pearl clutching, do you have any refutation of the arguments? I believe there is very credible reporting on ccp-sponsored hacking of industrial, military, government dbs, etc. Even if we don’t have hard evidence of this type of hardware compromise, it seems to be wise to believe there are serious risks, and to take action until such risks are investigated. Despite all the expertise on HN, i would guess…

Trade restrictions are not good for our economy. Huawei and ZTE's main competitors are mostly US based companies so they will see protection from competition with this policy. While you may see the national security threat as credible, many others do not.

> Huawei and ZTE's main competitors are mostly US based companies

Their biggest competitor within Telecommunications is a Swedish company.

Re: U.S. bans equipment from Huawei and ZTE, citing national security concerns

#248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This situation is regrettable for both parties. But resorting to "US bad" and "China victim" here is a gross simplification of the situation. It's clear which side is the aggressor here. The Chinese government doesn't want a tech war or a trade war, because every year that China can stably develop its economy plays in its favor. The US sees the same situation in exactly the opposite way: every year that China devel…

I don't understand how you can complain about unfair economic warfare being waged by the west, while at the same time downplay the systemic theft of western IP to build the Chinese economy. One is "economic warfare" and the other is a "minor annoyance"? Guess it depends on whose side you're on? As for "American anxiety about being displaced as the world's top power". It's no secret that China wants to replace the wes…

> the systemic theft of western IP to build the Chinese economy

As I said, you're hugely exaggerating the scale and significance of IP theft. IP theft was not important to the development of the Chinese economy. There is weak IP protection in practically every developing economy, and China was not unusual in this regard. China now has relatively strong IP protections, which are better than what most countries at its developmental stage have.

> It's no secret that China wants to replace the western/liberal rules based system of international order with one of their own design.

The phrase "rules-based international order" has become a buzzword at the State Department over the last few years. China buys into the international system, centered on the UN, but also including the WTO and other multilateral organizations. The US has a very bad record of respecting these organizations, particularly since the late 1990s. Just two examples: the illegal invasion of Iraq (the US knew the UNSC would reject any war authorization, so the Bush administration declared the UN irrelevant and went ahead with the invasion anyways), and Trump's trade wars (which obviously went against WTO rules, though the US also purposely lamed the WTO by blocking the appointment of appeals judges). I suspect that the reason the State Department likes the term "rules-based international order" is that it doesn't explicitly refer to the actual, established international system (the UN), and is vague enough that it can refer to really whatever the US wants to.

> It seems China seeks to return to pre-WWII conditions, where great powers have the opportunity to pursue their ambitions in absence of any group uniting to keep them in check.

China is one of the most vocal supporters of the UN as the central organization for regulating international affairs, and of the principle of non-interference in the internal affairs of sovereign countries. I don't see where you're getting the idea that China wants to overturn the international system.

Re: U.S. bans equipment from Huawei and ZTE, citing national security concerns

#249
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't believe there has been any confirmation of weapons sent to Ukraine ending up on the black market or has there?

If Russia is bargaining with Iran trading "hundreds" of captured anti-tank weapons and guided artillery munitions... it doesn't take a genius to come to conclusions as to what other non-state affiliated actors are doing... Ukraine has also arrested a number of Ukrainians in known smuggling rings selling captured weapons on the black market [1]. [0] https://news.sky.com/story/russia-gave-eur140m-and-captured-... [1] h…

> If Russia is bargaining with Iran trading "hundreds" of captured anti-tank weapons and guided artillery munitions... it doesn't take a genius to come to conclusions as to what other non-state affiliated actors are doing...

Im not seeing any sources saying that Russia is giving Iran hundreds of anti tank weapons? or guided artillery munitions?.

Re: U.S. bans equipment from Huawei and ZTE, citing national security concerns

#250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is just appalling protectionism; is it really something that we tech people should cheer on?

This is silly pearl clutching, do you have any refutation of the arguments? I believe there is very credible reporting on ccp-sponsored hacking of industrial, military, government dbs, etc. Even if we don’t have hard evidence of this type of hardware compromise, it seems to be wise to believe there are serious risks, and to take action until such risks are investigated. Despite all the expertise on HN, i would guess…

> This is silly pearl clutching, do you have any refutation of the arguments?

The refutation is that the tech sector is one of the largest beneficiaries of globalization, and practically would not exist in any recognizable form without it.

With measures like this (but by no means only this measure), the US is in the process of rolling back globalization, and the tech sector will suffer for it.

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