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FCC Bans Authorizations for Devices That Pose National Security Threat

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Re: FCC Bans Authorizations for Devices That Pose National Security Threat

#151

Post by [deleted] »

phpisthebest wrote: post #147
onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd rather live in a society where businesses follow the law - and if the laws don't make sense - we change them.

So you reject the idea of civil disobedience, and in reality reject the idea of case law and the entire legal system as most laws are written and challenged based on violations of the law. Laws that everyone follows, 100% of the time NEVER get changed. For example Marijuana is only becoming legalized because of MASSIVE violations of the law and the public rejecting the idea that society should be punishing people for…

[deleted]

Re: FCC Bans Authorizations for Devices That Pose National Security Threat

#152

Post by erosenbe0 »

squarefoot wrote: post #99

They seem to make a special case of modules by those brands, for example 4G or 5G modems that are contained in other manufacturers appliances, and these days employ self contained operating systems in theory perfectly capable of moving information back and forth without any intervention, or even knowledge, from the device employing them (cellphone, IoT device, industrial appliance, vehicle etc). The problem is: how d…

FCC doesn't necessarily concern itself primarily with device functionality and security, but rather enforcing the rules of the road, so to speak, for the electromagnetic spectrum.

For example, if you sell a microwave oven, you need to use the ISM band or whatever they deem appropriate, and they won't mind whatever EMF goo it puts out. If your microwave oven deviates from allowed parameters, it will fail cert. If it interferes with telecommunications or other equipment and you sell it anyway, you can get in big trouble with Uncle Sam.

If you sell a widget that is functionally insecure but you don't lie about it in a negligent or fraudulent way, that isn't necessarily a problem. If you have a backdoor for some nefarious purpose, that could run afoul of numerous criminal or civil statutes. Some of these statutes vary by state, too, so best practice is full disclosure, of course.

Re: FCC Bans Authorizations for Devices That Pose National Security Threat

#153

Post by fortuna86 »

flumpcakes wrote: post #81

While I have no doubt than basically anything from China is probably backdoored (and to the fault of western countries outsourcing manufacturing for cheap labour), what exactly has Huawei done? How do we know that the Cisco equipment also isn't backdoored and if I send a few malformed TCP packets it opens up its control plane on the receiving port? Compared to the last few decades, it seems like a strong hand banning…

> what exactly has Huawei done?

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-12-16/chinese-s...

Re: FCC Bans Authorizations for Devices That Pose National Security Threat

#154

Post by fortuna86 »

screamingninja wrote: post #145
vasac wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, it's fascinating. Also it's not true. Some people that worked at Nortel at that time already spoke on HN what happened - hint: it was internal Nortel's issues. Something similar happened to Nokia, better products appeared and company wasn't able to compete.

Source?

Also would like a source

Re: FCC Bans Authorizations for Devices That Pose National Security Threat

#155

Post by fatneckbeardz »

jasonhansel wrote: post #17

Is it just me, or does the full "report and order" spend way, way too much time responding to the comments of various telecom companies and trade groups? The tone seems far too deferential, as if they're apologizing to the industry they're trying to regulate.

because the people in the government who write this stuff are going to go into industry in a few years trying to get jobs.

Re: FCC Bans Authorizations for Devices That Pose National Security Threat

#156

Post by 737min »

ScoobleDoodle wrote: post #144
flumpcakes wrote: post #81

While I have no doubt than basically anything from China is probably backdoored (and to the fault of western countries outsourcing manufacturing for cheap labour), what exactly has Huawei done? How do we know that the Cisco equipment also isn't backdoored and if I send a few malformed TCP packets it opens up its control plane on the receiving port? Compared to the last few decades, it seems like a strong hand banning…

Do you think Lenovo laptops are back door’s too?

It is hard to know for sure, but it seems like a very hard temptation for any hostile, totalitarian government to resist?

Imagine Germany selling radios to the UK in 1937...

Re: FCC Bans Authorizations for Devices That Pose National Security Threat

#157

Post by erosenbe0 »

CoastalCoder wrote: post #38
reversethread wrote: post #8

In reality, Chinese manufactures will just ignore FCC licensing requirements. A good amount of cheap Chinese electronics on Amazon are already unlicensed, so I doubt any new changes will affect them. Online marketplaces like Amazon really need to crack down on products and make sure they are properly licensed.

Perhaps another approach is FCC enforcement against Amazon.

Amazon started requiring FCC information on RF devices this year. Late is better than never.

While Amazon -- given its vast resources -- has no excuse not be a good citizen, obviously the burden on retailers and marketplaces needs to be balanced.

The local mom and pop toy shop selling a few uncertified RF-controlled cars isn't exactly the ideal place to initiate enforcement actions. I'd suggest volume importers or facilitators of volume imports.

Re: FCC Bans Authorizations for Devices That Pose National Security Threat

#158

Post by 737min »

Spooky23 wrote: post #104
flumpcakes wrote: post #81

While I have no doubt than basically anything from China is probably backdoored (and to the fault of western countries outsourcing manufacturing for cheap labour), what exactly has Huawei done? How do we know that the Cisco equipment also isn't backdoored and if I send a few malformed TCP packets it opens up its control plane on the receiving port? Compared to the last few decades, it seems like a strong hand banning…

There’s a long history of telecom equipment being backdoored by the manufacturer or their national gov. You may recall everyone losing their shit on HN about the AT&T room in NYC where the fiber trunks were mirrored to a secret NSA room. Regardless of the whataboutism argument in Internet forums, it’s not in the national interest to give a hostile foreign power the ability to do something like that.

Very well put, esp when the government is known for unapologetic surveillance and repression.

Re: FCC Bans Authorizations for Devices That Pose National Security Threat

#159

Post by flumpcakes »

Spooky23 wrote: post #104
flumpcakes wrote: post #81

While I have no doubt than basically anything from China is probably backdoored (and to the fault of western countries outsourcing manufacturing for cheap labour), what exactly has Huawei done? How do we know that the Cisco equipment also isn't backdoored and if I send a few malformed TCP packets it opens up its control plane on the receiving port? Compared to the last few decades, it seems like a strong hand banning…

There’s a long history of telecom equipment being backdoored by the manufacturer or their national gov. You may recall everyone losing their shit on HN about the AT&T room in NYC where the fiber trunks were mirrored to a secret NSA room. Regardless of the whataboutism argument in Internet forums, it’s not in the national interest to give a hostile foreign power the ability to do something like that.

I agree. We should also force western companies to produce their products in the west too if they are needed for national security. A controller or motherboard in a switch or router being manufactured in China can have any number of bugs put in, up to and including making "fake" silicon that is backdoored.

Re: FCC Bans Authorizations for Devices That Pose National Security Threat

#160

Post by zerocrates »

kelnos wrote: post #138
heavyset_go wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People are taking action now because the West spent decades underestimating China, probably for xenophobic reasons. I'm willing to bet a lot of people assumed they weren't as capable as westerners and now it can't be denied. IMO, it was a classic mistake of underestimating a potential rival while stroking our own egos about how smart, capable and powerful we are in comparison. Reality finally trumped hubris.

It has nothing to do with xenophobia. The Chinese government doesn't play fair, and the West has been letting them get away with it for decades. They take full advantage of open markets available in the rest of the world, but close their markets to outsiders; at best, outsiders can get a piece of the action, but only through the oversight and partial ownership of a local company. The idea that China is still a "devel…

The parent comment isn't saying anti-China actions and suspicions by the government are xenophobic. It's instead saying more or less the opposite: that the delay in these kinds of actions is possibly down to policymakers seeing China as lesser and not worth concern.
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